Drove a Tesla and I'm a bit sad.

[Nader]

Originally Posted by island911

Battery tech is developing too fast?

c'mon. Energy densities of batteries (when you add all of the cooling and controls) have been stagnant over the decades. Just look at the 787... they wanted the lightest batteries they could get... the highest of high tech control systems and cooling wrapped up in a fire box and.... weighs just the same as if they used lead acid.

You can pretend that electric cars are all that, but reality will get in the way.

You want to accelerate hard? hope you don't care about range or longevity of the battery pack. Need a heater or AC? there goes range. Charging is cheap, and s l o w . . . But at least the car is expensive.

Glen, I'm no engineer, but I drove the damn car, in anger. And my brother, along with tens of thousands of other Tesla owners, commutes with it every day in L.A.; near as I/we can tell, it IS all that. When I got out of the car, I wasn't gleefully jumping up and down. I just shook my head, like, daaaang.

Anyway, I look forward to resurrecting this thread in 5-10 years!

[island911]

Take one to PIR. See if it can do even 5 laps as quickly as your Alfa.

Or take one on a loop over the N. cascade hwy, Grand Coolee, down the Columbia gorge, Wenatchee and back over Steven's pass in a day. (not going to happen)

Battery tech has a Long way to go.

Look down in the bottom left corner...



per Wikipedia

[Nader]

These cars are for commuting and running errands. 99% of which happens within the car's range. Travel and track driving are outliers. Except autocross, where the Model 3 has recently taken the championship in its class and been subsequently bumped up two whole classes for next year. As for energy density, shouldn't a tank of gas take the average car to the moon?

[rusnak]

I don't see how the using of electricity is deemed "sustainable" when the production and storage of it is not.

[ckelly78z]

I just don't think I will ever embrace the technology, I still plug CDs into my 16 year old Mustang car radio, and watch network TV, don't have any APPs on my phone, and have never had a "play list" or played with an Xbox, or Playstation. It would take an act of God for me to buy a Tesla.

I'm just a simple country boy who enjoys the outdoors, and mechanical things like tractors, and chainsaws.....man card fully in tact !

[GH85Carrera]

To me the real "sweet spot" for electric cars is the daily commuter. For most folks that is a 25 to 50 miles each way trip. Electric is perfect for that. It is the ultimate appliance vehicle. As my commute is 14 steps down the hall from the bedroom to my home office I have no need whatsoever for an electric car.

The ICE vehicles will be around a long time I predict. At least to the end of my driving life. Hopefully by the time I am too old to drive myself we will have truly autonomous cars that we will not own. Just punch a button on my phone and a car shows up, takes me where I need to go. No need for a garage, no need for the cost of a car, insurance, and all the other expenses.

For now, I will continue to drive my 35 year old 911 at the autocross, and on long road trips. I realize I am an old geezer but there is nothing else like the simple smell of sitting in my 911. Leather seats and the carpet, oil and old car. I love that smell, and I love the music of the flat 6. I can't imagine how boring it would be to listen to the hum of the tires as the only sound. Yea, I listen to music but the sound of the engine is the real music. Even after a 12 hour drive I love it.

Collectors like the Jay Lenos of the future will still have steam power, electric, and ICE engines collections. Jay has an electric car that is over 100 years old.

If I could convert to Natural Gas for cheap, I would love to do that to the El Camino. Hook up at home each night and always leave home with a full tank of dirt cheap CNG, if it runs low, switch back to the gasoline power. I looked into it and it was thousands of dollars to do it. Not worth it at all.

[David]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Not enough coal to power all the “electric” cars if the ICE is banned...

That does not appear to be correct.

We would need 25% more electricity to replace every car in the US with an electric car. In most parts of the US, the lowest electric loads are at night when most people would charge their car so the excess capacity at night could be used to charge cars. Obviously there would need to be some increase in capacity but no where near the 25% additional power needed. Plus, plugged in cars could act as a grid stabilizer (battery bank) when more renewable capacity is added.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by David

That does not appear to be correct.

We would need 25% more electricity to replace every car in the US with an electric car. In most parts of the US, the lowest electric loads are at night when most people would charge their car so the excess capacity at night could be used to charge cars. Obviously there would need to be some increase in capacity but no where near the 25% additional power needed. Plus, plugged in cars could act as a grid stabilizer (battery bank) when more renewable capacity is added.

That is an ideal situation guess.

Now come back to the real world. Imagine a hot July day. Right now, the electric grid struggles to keep up with demand for just the AC used for homes and offices, with all the plants running at max. Add in the millions of cars needing to recharge. Your chart does not even mention the mega millions of 18 wheel tractor trucks that move the goods around. They suck up a lot of diesel. And lots of people get gasoline during the day every day 365 days out of the year. They can't all shift to night time. We have to build for the peak demand or the grid crashes. Many people live in apartments. They will have to charge up at the office, or in the day time.

We are going to need way more than 25% more eletricity. And look how many Gigawatts the US makes every day. Add 50% to that. Lots of new plants will be needed. None of them are built quickly or cheaply.

I would love to see the figures on how much gasoline and diesel is consumed every year right now. How much electricity does that require to replace. To move a 4,000 pound vehicle around at highway speeds requires a lot of energy. It can come from electricity or gasoline or whatever.

[widebody911]

Interesting anecdote: my dad just built a new garage and was required by code to install an electric car charging station. I wonder whose lobbying got that into the building code... This is in San Joaquin County - not exactly a tree-hugging hotbed of liberals

[island911]

Sad code ^ It's like requiring Betamax players if adding on media room.

Originally Posted by David

That does not appear to be correct.

We would need 25% more electricity to replace every car in the US with an electric car. ...

LOL, right!

[island911]

Originally Posted by Nader

These cars are for commuting and running errands. 99% of which happens within the car's range. Travel and track driving are outliers. Except autocross, where the Model 3 has recently taken the championship in its class and been subsequently bumped up two whole classes for next year. As for energy density, shouldn't a tank of gas take the average car to the moon?

Clearly the chart shows you need liquid Hydrogen for that.

Or maybe with all the battery progress....

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

That is an ideal situation guess.

Now come back to the real world. Imagine a hot July day. Right now, the electric grid struggles to keep up with demand for just the AC used for homes and offices, with all the plants running at max. Add in the millions of cars needing to recharge. Your chart does not even mention the mega millions of 18 wheel tractor trucks that move the goods around. They suck up a lot of diesel. And lots of people get gasoline during the day every day 365 days out of the year. They can't all shift to night time. We have to build for the peak demand or the grid crashes. Many people live in apartments. They will have to charge up at the office, or in the day time.

We are going to need way more than 25% more eletricity. And look how many Gigawatts the US makes every day. Add 50% to that. Lots of new plants will be needed. None of them are built quickly or cheaply.

I would love to see the figures on how much gasoline and diesel is consumed every year right now. How much electricity does that require to replace. To move a 4,000 pound vehicle around at highway speeds requires a lot of energy. It can come from electricity or gasoline or whatever.

Indeed. Though i wouldn't be so kind as to call it a 'guess'. It's either child-like ignorance or intentional misdirection.

The issue we face is capacity. And THAT is crazy expensive to get.

[berettafan]

And lastly: If the sweet spot for E cars is commuting on busy roads to stores and jobs then why on earth wouldn't we be pushing for more public transportation?

Has to be way more efficient.

The 'sweet spot' for e cars doesn't exist. It is already taken by buses/trains.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Interesting anecdote: my dad just built a new garage and was required by code to install an electric car charging station. I wonder whose lobbying got that into the building code... This is in San Joaquin County - not exactly a tree-hugging hotbed of liberals

This makes me sad, did he have to put solar panels on the roof?

[john70t]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Interesting anecdote: my dad just built a new garage and was required by code to install an electric car charging station.

Next phase is a converter for quick-charging tools and equipment? Run welders? Anything needing high voltage.
Make lemonade from lemons?

idk what the upside to that is.
Start an app for travelers and build a separate B&B resting space w/bed toilet wifi and fridge.
Cottage industry.
(but of course they will ban those just as soon as they begin)

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

This makes me sad, did he have to put solar panels on the roof?

He did not, but all new residential construction in that county requires it, so it's probably just a matter of time.

[Evans, Marv]

Originally Posted by berettafan

And lastly: If the sweet spot for E cars is commuting on busy roads to stores and jobs then why on earth wouldn't we be pushing for more public transportation?

Has to be way more efficient.

The 'sweet spot' for e cars doesn't exist. It is already taken by buses/trains.

I have mostly never found this to be true from a personal use level, except for large cities where I've taken subways. Generally public transportation in almost all places I've seen in the US is inefficient. The stops are nowhere close to destinations people want to go, and the time to use it makes it too time consuming to get from one place to another. Some of the exceptions I've seen are commuter busses going from outlying areas to down town areas and systems in some foreign countries. The bus systems in some foreign countries I've used go up and down the streets. You get on one bus in the direction you want, & change direction by getting on another. In the US, bus routes are so circuitous, they're too inefficient and time consuming and don't support trolley and train systems well. I've never been able to figure out why most are designed the way they are. I'm planning on most likely getting an EV for my wife & me for everyday commuting, shopping, & errand use. At this point, that's exactly the best use for it. If EV's become the norm for the future, I think there will be a huge amount of adjustments necessary in the support systems at the next decade mark.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Nader

These cars are for commuting and running errands. 99% of which happens within the car's range. Travel and track driving are outliers. Except autocross, where the Model 3 has recently taken the championship in its class and been subsequently bumped up two whole classes for next year. As for energy density, shouldn't a tank of gas take the average car to the moon?

My son (who lives in Alabama) bought a Model 3 right when they came out (he's one of the ones who put in a deposit) and has a lot of miles on it (over 25k). And he drives it hard. He's on his second set of tires already. Astounding car. I had the same "alien technology" feeling when I rode in it. The performance is undeniable. And...the range is perfectly usable. He drives up here to Knoxville often (>200 miles) on one charge - regardless of the weather, etc. I think his range is close to 300 miles. When he gets here, we drive over to the local Target (to the charging station) and walk the 200 feet to O'Charley's, drink two beers and it's fully charged.

For anyone who hasn't been in a Tesla - don't be too quick to judge. They are impressive.

I'll admit that there is room for improvement, but I am sold on the future of electric cars. I watched a video comparison of the Taycan vs the Tesla Model S (?) and the Taycan accelerated faster and handled better. If Porsche could put an electric drivetrain in a Cayman and sell them for $60k, they would be a massive hit.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by berettafan

And lastly: If the sweet spot for E cars is commuting on busy roads to stores and jobs then why on earth wouldn't we be pushing for more public transportation?

Has to be way more efficient.

The 'sweet spot' for e cars doesn't exist. It is already taken by buses/trains.

Not hardly.

Public transportation is ideal for large urban cities, no question, no argument. That is only 1% or so of the land area in the USA.

One of the local reporters decided to try public transportation compared to him driving a car. Instead of a 15 minute car trip he had to walk almost a mile to get to and from the bus stops, and it took 1.5 hours to make the same trip, and he works in downtown OKC.

A city like Oklahoma City metro area is over 1,200 sq miles and a little over one million people. It is easy to drive 75 miles to get to a destination and never leave the city area. There simply is no way to do it with public transportation.

Back when I still I commuted the first three miles of my trip was often done without seeing any other moving cars, and I live in the city!

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by berettafan

And lastly: If the sweet spot for E cars is commuting on busy roads to stores and jobs then why on earth wouldn't we be pushing for more public transportation?

Has to be way more efficient.

The 'sweet spot' for e cars doesn't exist. It is already taken by buses/trains.

My commute is 16 miles. I would have to drive 13 miles to get to a spot for a bus and there are o trains available.

A Model S would work for my commute just fine though (the Model 3 is just too ugly, even more so on the inside) but it wouldn't replace any of our current vehicles since we take a lot of road trips and I wouldn't put up with having to route to where superchargers are. Or, we would rent a vehicle for road trips.