Drove a Tesla and I'm a bit sad.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by john70t

When electrics can weight the same or less, go 400 miles with all amenities, fill up in 5 minutes, and then continue on...

Or, the govenor of VA (or whatever state you are in) decides that you are no longer allowed to own an ICE and mandates you turn in your ICE for an EV.

Originally Posted by David

We would need 25% more electricity to replace every car in the US with an electric car. In most parts of the US, the lowest electric loads are at night when most people would charge their car so the excess capacity at night could be used to charge cars. Obviously there would need to be some increase in capacity but no where near the 25% additional power needed. Plus, plugged in cars could act as a grid stabilizer (battery bank) when more renewable capacity is added.

The numbers don't add up. The majority of autos are ICE and gasoline has a much higher energy density.
Next, if the majority of people recharge at night that will increase the energy generation needs and consumers will no longer get a lower rate for off-peak usage.

Plus answer this:
What do the people in a major cities with no garage do to recharge their cars? Will every parking spot also have a charger? What will the cost to setup that kind of infrastructure cost and WHO do you think will pay for it?
How about an apartment dweller?
Finally, when CA decides to do a blackout or brownout, how many people will no longer be able to get to work? Their infrastructure is already at max capability. There aren't enough unicorns to magically fart the power needed to go to EV.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

To me the real "sweet spot" for electric cars is the daily commuter. For most folks that is a 25 to 50 miles each way trip. Electric is perfect for that. It is the ultimate appliance vehicle. As my commute is 14 steps down the hall from the bedroom to my home office I have no need whatsoever for an electric car.

The ICE vehicles will be around a long time I predict. At least to the end of my driving life. Hopefully by the time I am too old to drive myself we will have truly autonomous cars that we will not own. Just punch a button on my phone and a car shows up, takes me where I need to go. No need for a garage, no need for the cost of a car, insurance, and all the other expenses.

For now, I will continue to drive my 35 year old 911 at the autocross, and on long road trips. I realize I am an old geezer but there is nothing else like the simple smell of sitting in my 911. Leather seats and the carpet, oil and old car. I love that smell, and I love the music of the flat 6. I can't imagine how boring it would be to listen to the hum of the tires as the only sound. Yea, I listen to music but the sound of the engine is the real music. Even after a 12 hour drive I love it.

Collectors like the Jay Lenos of the future will still have steam power, electric, and ICE engines collections. Jay has an electric car that is over 100 years old.

If I could convert to Natural Gas for cheap, I would love to do that to the El Camino. Hook up at home each night and always leave home with a full tank of dirt cheap CNG, if it runs low, switch back to the gasoline power. I looked into it and it was thousands of dollars to do it. Not worth it at all.

yes, the daily commuter - except for the initial cost (which explains why Tesla and now Porsche, Audi are moving in to the luxury GT slots)

for EVs in general, the delivery van is the sweet spot (also buses, meter maid cars) - Amazon just tossed a big big monkey wrench at the Fedex, USPS, UPS plans to design EV delivery vans - we'll see who wins the shootout

[Tobra]

California's solution to this is to make it the most tax intensive and hostile to business they can manage and chase away productive folks that live here. Fewer productive folks, less demand for energy, and less stress on the crumbling infrastructure.

[bleucamaro]

Originally Posted by Tobra

California's solution to this is to make it the most tax intensive and hostile to business they can manage and chase away productive folks that live here. Fewer productive folks, less demand for energy, and less stress on the crumbling infrastructure.

That was Literally Gov. Brown's plan in the 70's for infrastructure. Stop urban sprawl by defunding infrastructure maintenance. People will get pissed and leave. problem solved.

[stealthn]

Lots of really good points here.

Another question is what is going to happen in 5-10 years when all the batteries will need to be replaced, what happens to the old ones...?

[Por_sha911]

Old batteries are eaten by the unicorns who create more magical energy without any environmental impact.

[pmax]

A $20K e-commuter makes the $7500 or whatever it is now credit much more enticing to the masses.

Standardize the connectors , batteries and even the drivetrain components and we will get there.

[manbridge 74]

Because fuel prices are some of the the lowest it’s ever been. Once coal powered EVs are everywhere gas will be even cheaper. But they certainly won’t be everywhere until they are priced low enough for the Everyman. And after more coal burning power plants are built....

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Because fuel prices are some of the the lowest it’s ever been. Once coal powered EVs are everywhere gas will be even cheaper. But they certainly won’t be everywhere until they are priced low enough for the Everyman. And after more coal burning power plants are built....

This. Fuel prices are as low as the early 1970s if you adjust for inflation. Well outside of California anyway, with normal gas and taxes.

Our 100% gasoline is $2.30 or so now. 10% gasohol is just over 2 bucks, but I don't use that crap.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by stealthn

Lots of really good points here.

Another question is what is going to happen in 5-10 years when all the batteries will need to be replaced, what happens to the old ones...?

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-019-1682-5

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

coal powered EVs ....

is someone paying you to spread disinformation?

[David]

This morning gas delivered price at work was $2.065 vs coal at $1.870. That $0.195 difference doesn't offset the extra cost of turning coal into electricity vs natural gas. Coal is dead.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by Tobra

California's solution to this is to make it the most tax intensive and hostile to business they can manage and chase away productive folks that live here. Fewer productive folks, less demand for energy, and less stress on the crumbling infrastructure.

That's the Liberal agenda for California's central San Joaquin Valley.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by RWebb

is someone paying you to spread disinformation?

If you can’t define “disinformation” then you aren’t in a position to know what is or isn’t.

Natural gas fired plants are great but that is next on hated list.

[Nader]

I don't currently care about the social, economic, and ecologic implications of EVs. I'm just lamenting the sooner-than-expected obsolescence of my multiple ICE vehicles. If there's an infrastructure or economic roadblock to their widespread implementation, the free market, like nature, will accommodate the necessary changes (for better or worse).

I won't pay attention to arguments that the cars aren't good, because they are. Until you drive one yourself, it's hard to explain. I mashed on the car, and it was a rocket. Then I completed the rest of the errand by jacking up the regenerative braking and driving the rest of the way, with traffic, using only one pedal, like a golf cart. It was raining out, and we had the car drive itself over from its parking spot and meet us in front of the shop. Crazy. Didn't use self-driving beyond that (because it still makes me nervous), but I can imagine that at the end of the day or night out, when you're exhausted and you just want to get home, it would be pretty damn nice to have your car meet you out front and chauffeur you home.

When more people get a taste of that, people who aren't hard-core enthusiasts like us (>90% of the population), they won't be going back to ICE, and EV will be the only game in town. Honestly ask yourself if you see any major manufacturer still making ICE vehicles 20 years from now. That's why I'm kicking the idea around of retrofits, because god-willing I want to keep driving in my 70's. And I hate the idea of having to drive 20 miles out of my way to one of the last few remaining gas stations to fill up (assuming the ICE cars are still allowed on the road).

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

If you can’t define “disinformation” then you aren’t in a position to know what is or isn’t.

Natural gas fired plants are great but that is next on hated list.

claiming that EVs are "coal powered" is just BS

go post in PARF

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Nader

I don't currently care about the social, economic, and ecologic implications of EVs. I'm just lamenting the sooner-than-expected obsolescence of my multiple ICE vehicles. If there's an infrastructure or economic roadblock to their widespread implementation, the free market, like nature, will accommodate the necessary changes (for better or worse).

I won't pay attention to arguments that the cars aren't good, because they are. Until you drive one yourself, it's hard to explain. I mashed on the car, and it was a rocket. Then I completed the rest of the errand by jacking up the regenerative braking and driving the rest of the way, with traffic, using only one pedal, like a golf cart. It was raining out, and we had the car drive itself over from its parking spot and meet us in front of the shop. Crazy. Didn't use self-driving beyond that (because it still makes me nervous), but I can imagine that at the end of the day or night out, when you're exhausted and you just want to get home, it would be pretty damn nice to have your car meet you out front and chauffeur you home.

When more people get a taste of that, people who aren't hard-core enthusiasts like us (>90% of the population), they won't be going back to ICE, and EV will be the only game in town. Honestly ask yourself if you see any major manufacturer still making ICE vehicles 20 years from now. That's why I'm kicking the idea around of retrofits, because god-willing I want to keep driving in my 70's. And I hate the idea of having to drive 20 miles out of my way to one of the last few remaining gas stations to fill up (assuming the ICE cars are still allowed on the road).

ok, which ones?

sports cars with fun engines are not going anywhere so the obsolescence doesn't apply there

obsolescence for commuter cars, luxury cars, trucks, maybe GTs is some years out

the only thing I see is fewer gas stations in some areas - in rural areas of the inter-mountain West there has been a shortage of gas stations for decades, and I've had to plan camping trips to get gas between 9-5 in small towns since the 1970s, besides carrying a 5 gal. jerry can

those will likely be the last areas to go with EVs anyway


Ok, I just checked to be sure you didn't live in Finland (which may outlaw sales of ICE cars in several years). E of Seattle you have LOTS of options, and that will continue for a long time.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Nader, don't be sad.....

I'm on the front line of EV technology and have spent the last 3 yrs helping to push the boundaries of what can be done in motorsport which is a long way ahead of what can be done for the road

I also keep one foot in reality by choosing to drive to work in my beat up 25yr old Toyota diesel 4x4 that doesn't even have an ECU or electric fuel pump

I could buy a new Tesla but I truly believe I'm being greener by keeping another ICE car on the road instead of replacing it with several new EV car's or one new EV car and several battery packs while my old truck keeps on racking up the miles.

The EV technology revolution is all very clever stuff but I don't think the world is anywhere near ready for EV only cars/transport, from production, domestic electrical charging infrastructure to recycling so I think progress that will more than likely be measured in decades not years

[aschen]

The throttle in a tesla works like a reverse brake, instant and can be startling if pushed too hard.

I am positive the rate of EV adoption will continue to increase. I think if you throw emotion aside the most compelling vehicles for the current state of battery technology are the plug in hybrids. You can do alot of your comuting in something like a prius hybrid on electricity and then get 50mpg on organic liquid joy for longer trips. All in a nice reliable package for 30k.

That is impressive engineering to me, not quite as fun as a 10 second quarter mile though.

[Por_sha911]

"Coal powered" is a stretch but, it points to the fact that "zero emissions" EVs are disinformation with a side order of virtue signaling. The power comes from somewhere and is usually from fossil fuel.

I can't wait until all the EV folks start screaming at the sky when they have to pay a heavy tax penalty to offset the lost revenue from taxes when purchasing gasoline.

You paid too much for the car, you are hindered where you can go or how far you can go, you'll end up paying a higher tax penalty. Sounds like a deal to me.