Challenge to Pelican Engineering -> Let's design and build an open-source Ventilator!

[rusnak]

I think the term "ventilator" is giving some people trouble.

What we are discussing is assisted respiration in all different possible forms.

[Mahler9th]

Cool, Ford, GM and perhaps others chippin' in.

Building assemblies and sub-assemblies for existing designs can make a lot of sense if that fits in to the larger picture.

Building B25's in a broader range of ways may be a great place for folks to help, as compared to to working in small groups to come up with a different war plane design.

[Mahler9th]

I think it makes sense to consider tools that HCP's say they need.

[Mahler9th]

And to consider the setting and other relevant specs and variables. And fast, fast, fast.

[HardDrive]

Last data point.

Plastic laid down with a 3D printer are riddled with both marco and micro level imperfections. The rapid cooling process that occurs as the material sets up ensures microscopic cracks in the material that would be impossible to sanitize without an autoclave. Translation: 3D printed parts would be throw away. You would not be able to reuse any part of a 3D printed vent without risk of infecting the next patient.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

You would not be able to reuse any part of a 3D printed vent without risk of infecting the next patient.

Good point. Not without some sort of a disposable liner.
There are mountains of one-use plastic medical-grade wa$te created each day.

Hospitals have huge central-air systems that are supposed to be filtered and sterile.
-What if there was a way to boost mainline pressure and hook up cycling nodes to vents?
-Calibrating supply pressure timing to the patients breathing rhythm would be the tricky part.
-There would have to be check valves to prevent spores from traveling upstream. (Perhaps in the replaceable mask/tube.)

[sammyg2]

Pence says admin has identified ‘tens of thousands’ of ventilators that can be converted to treat coronavirus patients

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pence-says-admin-has-identified-tens-of-thousands-of-ventilators-that-can-be-converted-to-treat-coronavirus-patients

[sammyg2]

As we learned during the early stages of WWII:
when the government helps instead of hinders or just gets the heck out of the way, there is no limit to what this country can achieve in a very short time.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

From the BBC website,

Coronavirus: Formula 1 teams are to help in supply of ventilators

Formula 1 teams are working with government and health authorities to increase the supply of ventilators during the coronavirus crisis.

Ventilators are a device used to help supply more air to patients with breathing difficulties, one of the effects of severe coronavirus symptoms.

The majority of F1 teams are aiming to work out ways to use their engineering facilities to boost production.

F1 said the aim was to "provide as much help and assistance as we can".

A spokesman said: "The F1 community is engaged in discussions with all the relevant stakeholders regarding this issue and we will provide further details in due course."

A number of teams have applied-technologies divisions that could directly feed into the national production capacity of ventilators in the UK and Italy, particularly McLaren, Red Bull, Williams, Mercedes and Ferrari.

But all teams have advanced manufacturing capability that could potentially be used to make complex devices such as this, and as many will help as can.

The idea is to increase the supply of the existing design of ventilators rather than try to come up with a new approach.

The UK is estimated to need an extra 20,000 ventilators to deal with the crisis as it develops over the coming months.

It is hoped that an approach can be agreed within the next week that will help teams feed into capacity as quickly as possible, to boost the capability of health services to deal with increasing numbers of patients with breathing difficulties.

The move follows the Agnelli family which controls Ferrari and Fiat donating €10m (£9.3m) to the Italian government to help deal with the coronavirus emergency at a national level, as well as buying 150 extra ventilators and providing a fleet of cars to distribute food and medicine.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Another strike against the homemade ventilator: Sensing a patient's breathing. If a person has simply stopped breathing, and the device can breath 100% for them, that is a simpler exercise. But what if the patient is still breathing, and you want to augment their natural breathing pattern. Could you build the sensors to detect a persons respiration. .

There must be sensors of a sort in CPAP machines. My CPAP knows when I exhale and reduces pressure. If I hold my breath the machine does nothing for a second or two, then increases pressure.

[Mahler9th]

Yes they have sensors. And a lot of electric components.

I am pretty sure that folks are continuing to work hard to source things necessary to expand capacity to build existing designs that are known to work (that is to be safe and effective) and the operation of which is familiar to trained and experienced personnel.

[Won]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

From the BBC website,

Coronavirus: Formula 1 teams are to help in supply of ventilators

Formula 1 teams are working with government and health authorities to increase the supply of ventilators during the coronavirus crisis.

Ventilators are a device used to help supply more air to patients with breathing difficulties, one of the effects of severe coronavirus symptoms.

The majority of F1 teams are aiming to work out ways to use their engineering facilities to boost production.

F1 said the aim was to "provide as much help and assistance as we can".

A spokesman said: "The F1 community is engaged in discussions with all the relevant stakeholders regarding this issue and we will provide further details in due course."

A number of teams have applied-technologies divisions that could directly feed into the national production capacity of ventilators in the UK and Italy, particularly McLaren, Red Bull, Williams, Mercedes and Ferrari.

But all teams have advanced manufacturing capability that could potentially be used to make complex devices such as this, and as many will help as can.

The idea is to increase the supply of the existing design of ventilators rather than try to come up with a new approach.

The UK is estimated to need an extra 20,000 ventilators to deal with the crisis as it develops over the coming months.

It is hoped that an approach can be agreed within the next week that will help teams feed into capacity as quickly as possible, to boost the capability of health services to deal with increasing numbers of patients with breathing difficulties.

The move follows the Agnelli family which controls Ferrari and Fiat donating €10m (£9.3m) to the Italian government to help deal with the coronavirus emergency at a national level, as well as buying 150 extra ventilators and providing a fleet of cars to distribute food and medicine.

Thanks for the update, Captain.

It's clear this thread is not where I or anybody can make a difference. As to my team, I'm on standby while another engineering group whose day job is closer to this sort of thing chips away at it.

Good luck to you all and keep yourself and others safe. And don't forget to be kind.

[tdw28210]

Why don't we just copy what the Italian guys did with their 3D printers? Just a much grander scale. Upload the files on the internet, tell the patent holder, "thanks" the US government will take care of you. and let the MASSES create them in the homes, apartments. What am I missing?

EDIT: OK, nevermind. that is just the connecting VALVE. Got it.

[RWebb]

Musk just said Tesla will be helping with this

[Rtrorkt]

Originally Posted by john70t

Hospitals have huge central-air systems that are supposed to be filtered and sterile.
-What if there was a way to boost mainline pressure and hook up cycling nodes to vents?
-Calibrating supply pressure timing to the patients breathing rhythm would be the tricky part.
-There would have to be check valves to prevent spores from traveling upstream. (Perhaps in the replaceable mask/tube.)

Hospitals have sophisticated HVAC systems but none are "sterile". HEPA filtration on certain systems, OR's and other invasive spaces specifically, provide high air quality but not to the filtered extent needed to attach to a ventilator. Many OR's have additional filtration at the diffuser. Hospital are required to meet a minimum air change per hour in each space, though each space type differs. Long story to say i don't believe central systems can be used in this situation at the patient level.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by RWebb

Musk just said Tesla will be helping with this

Soon he will be calling someone a "Pedo Guy"

[93nav]

There are numerous groups across the world attempting to design, create, manufacture etc items to be used in the fight against the corona virus. Complicated ventilators to simple masks. What I have noticed is that they most need project managers. So if you are good at that, look around for a group.

Originally Posted by Won

Thanks for the update, Captain.

It's clear this thread is not where I or anybody can make a difference. As to my team, I'm on standby while another engineering group whose day job is closer to this sort of thing chips away at it.

Good luck to you all and keep yourself and others safe. And don't forget to be kind.

[Won]

Originally Posted by 93nav

There are numerous groups across the world attempting to design, create, manufacture etc items to be used in the fight against the corona virus. Complicated ventilators to simple masks. What I have noticed is that they most need project managers. So if you are good at that, look around for a group.

Thanks, but no need. I don't have a hero complex. Perfectly happy to leave it to the capable hands of my teammates.

First prototypes are expected by the weekend, in collaboration with University College London.

The government asks for ventilators, F1 teams deliver ventilators. Let someone else worry about the regulations, although we tend to be quite good at that too as a group.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/51975690

Edit: reading it again, it sounds a bit $hit. What I meant is, I know what I'm good at, and I offered that both here (mostly as a brain exercise) and at work (for real). Evidently, this is not what's needed right now. Too many engineers and "inventor" types don't know when to bow out. Lead, follow or get out of the way - I know which one I'm doing.

[Mahler9th]

F1 cars are complex machines operated in extreme circumstances where life versus death can be on the line, and I would surmise that nearly every F1 team, and possibly teams in junior professional formulas have operational experience and practices very much like businesses that work in regulated industries like aircraft and medical device/equipment manufacturing.

Manufacturing components, sub-systems and even complete systems based on existing designs I would surmise would be right in their wheelhouses.

I would also surmise that their design talents could also be helpful, but perhaps less impactful.

And I would also hypothesize that they might have some realistic limits in terms of manufacturing output. But anything is better than nothing.

[Mahler9th]

I think it is possible that many/most existing vent manufacturers operating in governments that engage in capitalism have historically had at least some ongoing efforts to simplify designs and/or improve manufacturing yields and lower manufacturing costs.

If this is true, hopefully there is still fruit hanging low enough to help in these extreme circumstances.