Sweden Dealing with Covid the Right Way

[Shaun @ Tru6]

^^^

You've filled in a lot of blanks with your own confirmation bias kicking in a little.

Look, the Swedish model, if it works, only works for a tiny country with a single nationality population. And by the numbers, it isn't even working. I know, numbers are part of the Deep State, sure, but they can be reliably counted upon, so there's that. Anyway, if you want to apply it to the US, you can only apply it to "Indiana" but only with the acknowledgement that if you are in Indiana, you are staying in Indiana. Period. Will make for a great dystopian storyline.

Actually, I thought of one the other day, you have to step into a chamber on a daily basis to determine if you are infected. That information goes somewhere nefarious directing you what you can and can't do depending on the result with an overarching plan of shaping culture and behavior. That's as far as I got. Won't be writing to Jody Foster any time soon. Would be great for creating a meritocracy. Oh to dream.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by McLovin

Sweden has taken a science based approach, based on the science of this particular virus.

The US and many other countries have embarked on a grand unproven experiment.

When in the US’s 245 year history has the entire country shut down, unemployed tens of millions of people and spent $10 trillion because of a virus? Esp. a virus with a 0.xx% death rate?

An amazing, unprecedented $10 trillion experiment Fauci is conducting on the American people.

in 1918 - for the same reasons

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

It is humorous that Americans are arguing to use the Swedish strategy that isn't even working for Sweden.

why did you mis-spell "idiots" as "Americans" ??

[Shaun @ Tru6]

You know you are right since they aren't even Americans.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by McLovin

But again, like In every country, we’ll see.
They aren’t idiots in Sweden. In fact, their approach is very different than an American approach. Their chief epidemiologist freely admits there’s unknowns and it remains to be seen what happens. They aren’t stuck on dogma and will change course if necessary, based on science and results.
So different than most of the thinking here, which seems to be “Fauci knows everything, and we know with absolute certainty that his approach was right 100% in every regard and any questioning of that makes you a ______ (fill in your favorite political team insult).”
But as of now the vast majority of Swedes agree with the choices their elected government has made, view the balances that were made as thus far being successful, and at this stage of the game it seems unlikely that they are going to have to change course (thankfully, at least to me. And apparently disappointingly to some).

I agree Sweden is making a considered, thoughtful decision based on their scientific assessment and in the context of a cohesive, sensible society. Doesn’t mean their choice will prove correct.

They are making a lives vs economy tradeoff, we’ll see if it works. What I see so far is loss of life per capita that is multiples of their Scandanivan peers, with an economic downturn that so far is less than their peers but still looking to be worse than the Great Recession.

Ultimately the measure of success will be determined by X in the equivalence 1 life = X jobs. Different societies may have different views of this, different individuals clearly do.

I’m not that fussed about Sweden - their country, their choice. What frustrates me is that the US had a third choice. We could have chosen to save lives AND save jobs. That’s because the US has an asset no other country does, the US Dollar.

Despite the best efforts of China, the EU, etc, the US Dollar remains the world’s dominant asset. When the **** hits the fan, the whole world is desperate for USD and the global finance system will collapse if trillions of USD isn’t provided. That means that in a global financial crisis the US govt can print multiple trillions of USD without anyone saying boo. Trillions of USD to keep people employed, paying rent, paying mortgages, bridging over the shutdown that saves lives.

Unfortunately, we haven’t used that tool very effectively. We (the US govt) have been pretty good at protecting Wall St, big companies, bond and stockholders, banks. We have done a pretty bad job at getting money to small biz and individuals. And that’s why we haven’t been able to take that third road that only we have available to us.

We can still course-correct, though. There’s hope.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

It is humorous that Americans are arguing to use the Swedish strategy that isn't even working for Sweden.

Let's leave immigration and socialism out of this and stick to discussing Covid-19.

[island911]

You all arguing macro policy when it all comes down to how individuals respond. Which, btw, doesn't seem all that different around the globe. The data-spread is too huge among similar policy/response nations to conclude that this, or that policy is the big game changer.

What does seem apparent is that this virus was spooling up in some locations undetected, longer than it was in others. This made for some sever hot-spots.

But there will be Faucci fanbois (Shaun) who demand that the covid cower is the ONLY solution to [televangilist] Sa-ha-Haive us [/televangilist] - sure. what ev.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Let's leave immigration and socialism out of this and stick to discussing Covid-19.

Haven’t used my bio/biochem degrees in years but I wish I had the time and energy to follow the research more closely.

[ckissick]

Time for an update.

https://catalyst.independent.org/2020/05/15/sweden-covid-19-strategy-reopening/

[island911]

Imagine my shock. ^

Thanks Charlie.

[Tobra]

Interesting Charlie

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

"The whole point if Swedish approach is to lower final impact."

A worthy goal but in my opinion, one best left to situations that aren't life and death.

This seems a bit incongruous.

Wouldn't it be the most important in life and death situations to have less final impact?

[wayner]

From the article

“ First, the initial goal of “flattening the curve” has been realized. The lockdowns, it’s important to remember, were never intended as a permanent measure. It was a first step of a larger plan, one designed to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed.”

The question is, when has a country reached the conditions to move to phase II?

While many countries locked down earlier and are now able to begin loosening up constraints, other countries are just in the beginning stages of the spread, and have not met those conditions yet.

Ireland is a good example of a country that came out with hard and fast constraining measures.
The people of Ireland participated willingly by wanting to do the right thing.

The result was that the country has almost stopped the virus in its tracks.

It should be noted that the leader of Ireland is a medical doctor by trade.
Any concerns by the people were met with a frank science based discussion that made sense to the people.

[island911]

Branco has something on point to say, about what many of us know....

[ADDvanced]

Wisconsin had 500 deaths just on saturday, highest per day so far. And now everyone is out and about, acting like it's all fine. Hrm.



Winter looks fun.

[group911@aol.co]

Yep. Money over life. Fear...

Originally Posted by island911

Branco has something on point to say, about what many of us know....

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Wisconsin had 500 deaths just on saturday, highest per day so far. And now everyone is out and about, acting like it's all fine. Hrm.

No they didn't.

https://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/covid-19/deaths.htm

Why would you post that number without checking?

Here:

[ADDvanced]

Oops. Meant cases. Not deaths. My bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[island911]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

Yep. Money over life. Fear...

Money?

Oh you simplistic man.

Do some reading on death cause by poverty.

Also understand that money is nothing but a marker of resource.
People with out resources do not fair well in this world.

People with out resources do not live long in this world. -check the stats.

[Seahawk]

No worries.

I take CV-19 very seriously but the real numbers are very illuminating in term of risk.

This screen shot of Wisconsin matches very well with the data from other States:



When you do a second and third level analysis of the data for contributing health factors, CV-19 is still a threat but manageable.

I don't plan on attending events with any crowds, don't plan on eating out just now, etc. However, the numbers simply do not support continued shutdowns in all counties in all states.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I don't plan on attending events with any crowds, don't plan on eating out just now, etc. However, the numbers simply do not support continued shutdowns in all counties in all states.

That's where I'm at too. This one size fits all approach hasn't made much sense to me. I think the county I live in has had less than 10 confirmed cases and yet we're shut down like the counties with higher population density and higher cases. Doesn't make much sense.