buying a used car "reconditioning fee," WTF?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jcommin

Added fees are a code word for profit. I'm ok if the dealer makes a profit but don't tank the price of a vehicle and then add on stuff to improve the profit.

I bought a new car last year and negotiated the sale price. I knew the DOC fee, taxes and title transfer costs. I had my own financing. I get the invoice and as I am reviewing the costs and I see a charge of $300 for nitrogen in the tires. I went in orbit. My first response was take it out and put air in tires. I almost walked - which is something you should always be prepared to do. After a discussion with the manager we agreed on the price. After that discussion, there was no talk of upsell, payment buying or anything else.

Wow! $300? ROFLMAO. I'd have to have stopped laughing long enough to be angry. Yeah, sounds like you ran into exactly the same thing (but an order of magnitude smaller) that I ran into.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by masraum

Wow! $300? ROFLMAO. I'd have to have stopped laughing long enough to be angry. Yeah, sounds like you ran into exactly the same thing (but an order of magnitude smaller) that I ran into.

The dealership add this fee to every vehicle. This was the first new cat I bought in 20 years. The entire buying experience was tiring. I have an uncle and cousins who owned a car dealership for a very long time. They sold the business 20 years ago. They told me car cars stories. My take away is not much has changed since they sold their business.

[cabmandone]

From my experience, the "reconditioning fee" is what they charge to make it CPO so it carries the CPO warranty. That's why I ended up buying new! The cost to make it CPO so it came with a warranty put the car within the range of buying new and getting full warranty.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by craigster59

Here in Ca they are big on the "window VIN etching" and the "alarm" which is basically an aftermarket alarm that has been installed to lower the dealerships theft insurance.

Never heard of a "reconditioning fee", I thought that's what you did as a used car seller anyway.

I had a dealer pull the window etching bs on me once. I wanted a specific color, so he traded a car on his lot with another dealer. I get the call "Other dealer already did window etching, it's $xx dollars, do you still want it?" I said yes, go to pick up the car, and they are peeling off the masking from the etching as I arrive........

[MBAtarga]

Back in 1987 - went to a Jeep dealership as they had a Grand Cherokee with the trim package we were after. Most others available were fully loaded with power everything and ran about $10-15k more. I'm a numbers guy and had already done my homework with our credit union and knew the APR/payment amounts I was after. I don't recall the specifics but for grins let's say the APR was 6% and payments would be $300 for 5 years. I looked at the Cherokee, decided - yep that's the one. Sales guy pulls the 4 square method out on me - asks what I want the payments to be - and I say $1/month. He says - no I'm serious, and I answer I am too!

We keep going back and forth - he leaves his office to talk to the mgr a few times - and I get tired of it. I ask to deal with the mgr directly. Mgr comes in - I run down the price I'll pay and he agrees once he realizes I'm not haggling on it - otherwise I will walk. After the mgr leaves, sales guy tells me he has NEVER seen anyone buy a vehicle like I just did. I took that as a compliment.

They direct me to the finance department and I go sit down across the desk of the hottest sexiest long haired brunette you've ever seen. She pulls out some forms, prints out some stuff, asks me about financing - and I tell her I'd be interested in what they can offer. She gives me some 9% number, etc. I tell her my CU can give me 6%. She says she can come down to 7.5% or whatever - I tell her I'll just use my CU. She finally says something like - "that's the cost of my money" - and offers me 6.5%. I tell her I can't help that. She says okay - we'll do 6%. So I know the total amount financed and my 6% number - she types some stuff and tells me my payments will be $375/month. I'm like - what? The payments through my CU were about $300. She says - well don't you want life insurance on the payment? Don't you want fabric protection and under-body rust preventative? They were tacking on these things without any indication to me as to what they were adding. I'm certain that most guys sitting across from this hot gal would just give in and take whatever she said. Anyway - I got her to drop all the extras and finance the vehicle at my CU rate.

[masraum]

Dear Penthouse Forum,

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

Back in 1987 - went to a Jeep dealership as they had a Grand Cherokee with the trim package we were after. Most others available were fully loaded with power everything and ran about $10-15k more. I'm a numbers guy and had already done my homework with our credit union and knew the APR/payment amounts I was after. I don't recall the specifics but for grins let's say the APR was 6% and payments would be $300 for 5 years. I looked at the Cherokee, decided - yep that's the one. Sales guy pulls the 4 square method out on me - asks what I want the payments to be - and I say $1/month. He says - no I'm serious, and I answer I am too!

We keep going back and forth - he leaves his office to talk to the mgr a few times - and I get tired of it. I ask to deal with the mgr directly. Mgr comes in - I run down the price I'll pay and he agrees once he realizes I'm not haggling on it - otherwise I will walk. After the mgr leaves, sales guy tells me he has NEVER seen anyone buy a vehicle like I just did. I took that as a compliment.

They direct me to the finance department and I go sit down across the desk of the hottest sexiest long haired brunette you've ever seen. She pulls out some forms, prints out some stuff, asks me about financing - and I tell her I'd be interested in what they can offer. She gives me some 9% number, etc. I tell her my CU can give me 6%. She says she can come down to 7.5% or whatever - I tell her I'll just use my CU. She finally says something like - "that's the cost of my money" - and offers me 6.5%. I tell her I can't help that. She says okay - we'll do 6%. So I know the total amount financed and my 6% number - she types some stuff and tells me my payments will be $375/month. I'm like - what? The payments through my CU were about $300. She says - well don't you want life insurance on the payment? Don't you want fabric protection and under-body rust preventative? They were tacking on these things without any indication to me as to what they were adding. I'm certain that most guys sitting across from this hot gal would just give in and take whatever she said. Anyway - I got her to drop all the extras and finance the vehicle at my CU rate.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

You're going to love this.
At a Honda dealership I applied to, their training started out by saying 'Every person that walks onto our lot has $800 of YOUR money in their pocket.'
Needless to say, I didn't stay for the second half of the training session.

Look at it this way. If those people are truly buyers, then they will be spending that money somewhere and someone is getting a commission. Might as well be you.

In a long ago job, Al Sharpton's group, National Action Network, was using a competitor. I knew I could beat the price and service, but hated the thought of dealing with any of his people or that I could in any way be helping him. BUT .... he was going to spend that money somewhere, no matter what I did. Why shouldn't I get a piece of it? I got it too. I slept ok.

[Alan A]

I hate car dealers. Nothing about the experience is pleasant. I also consider my DD as an appliance so I’m not attached to them. Which means I’ll buy off the lot and decide quickly if it suits.

I get they are trying to make a living and they deal with a lot of people that can’t count but that back and forth to the manager to ‘try to get you a better deal’ is so damn transparent and so old.

Amongst all the others, we bought a lot of VWs over the years. Usually in under 15 minutes.
Haven’t been in since COVID, but heard that my sales guy retired - hopefully the sales manager is still around or we will be shopping a new dealer.

For some reason I’ve had more bad experiences at Toyota and Mercedes than anywhere else, but I’ve walked out of more than a dozen places because the salesman was playing games after I asked him - and it’s always a guy - not to.

[Rick Lee]

My grandmother was a car person. My earliest memories of life were riding in her green '68 Mustang. She had more dollars than sense and cared about service more than price. She'd walk into her favorite dealership and say, "I have this trade and $20k cash. What can you do for me?" All of us here know that's just screaming out to be shafted. But she didn't see it that way and didn't feel like she was getting screwed when she went home with a car and at a price she wanted. It's not fraud or taking advantage of someone if it's all transparent, in writing and they're fine with it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

Sorry Matt, I have to disagree.
If I can sit down with my knowledge of cars and figure out a price that they are going to offer me for my car, I don't think I got ripped off.
Same as when I traded in our Transport. I knew what I wanted and I told my wife how much they would ask for it once it was on their lot. I got what I wanted for it and was within $100 of their asking price when it hit their lot 2 days after we completed our deal.

Sorry Scott but I would argue that if your story is true that somebody got fired. I’ve lost Manheim auctions to Carmax, contrary to their advertising about vetting their cars they buy just like every other dealer. Their cash offers are consistently below MMR (true wholesale value based on actual sales) to insure they can auction your car if it doesn’t sell on their lot. The consumer doesn’t get real values without having auction access, book values like KBB and NADA are basically retail funded. I’ve looked at Carmax cars on the lot that have blatant issues like broken parts or shot tires, they’ll basically tell you that if you buy the car they’ll fix the problems. They are convenient, they are less annoying, but they are no different.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sorry Scott but I would argue that if your story is true that somebody got fired. I’ve lost Manheim auctions to Carmax, contrary to their advertising about vetting their cars they buy just like every other dealer. Their cash offers are consistently below MMR (true wholesale value based on actual sales) to insure they can auction your car if it doesn’t sell on their lot. The consumer doesn’t get real values without having auction access, book values like KBB and NADA are basically retail funded. I’ve looked at Carmax cars on the lot that have blatant issues like broken parts or shot tires, they’ll basically tell you that if you buy the car they’ll fix the problems. They are convenient, they are less annoying, but they are no different.

I don't know about the back end of things, and I have driven some cars at CM that seemed like great cars (great shape). But, I've also run into some that clearly had issues. I remember driving one on a cool fall evening once. They had a loop that they'd let you drive around their lot, it may have been a mile. Less than half the way around the loop on a cool fall evening the temp gauge was higher than it should have been. I've also driven others that I wouldn't consider buying because they had issues. I'm not sure that there are enough "great" cars out there that all of the CM could fill those huge lots of theirs without some real dogs making it into the mix.

I don't know anything about their buying. I've never sold a car to them, and would assume I wouldn't get what I could, but that it would be quick and easy.

[Rick Lee]

When I think of Carmax, I remember a guy in our old DC Porsche clique who was CM's paint guy at the dealership in NoVA. He snagged a 993tt for $44k around 2006 that they had taken in and had tired paint. But he could obviously deal with that very cheaply. Oh man, that was a smoking steal.

[Por_sha911]

Do your homework on what the cars sell for and what your trade may be worth. The dealer will quote price guide books like NADA for used cars. NADA prices are the average asking price not the final selling price.

Dealers want to talk payments because you never get a true sense of what you are paying for the car.

They almost always ask up front if you have a trade because they will jack up the price of the car you are buying to make your trade worth more. Tell them no trade. They will throw you a high price offer and they ask what you would be willing to pay. Nope. Its your car and you know how much you paid for it. You tell me your bottom dollar out the door price. I tell them I don't want to go back and forth and talk to 3 people. Just come back with your best price that if I wanted any less than that they couldn't sell the car. When the number sounds right, I ask to see an itemized list of how they got to that number. When we are done with that, then you bring up a trade in since you ended up paying more than you planned. They will start to sweat right before your eyes because they don't want to admit that your sled is not worth what you think it is so they feel pressured to give you the most they can so they don't lose the deal. Check the numbers against your no trade quote to be sure the numbers are correct. Check the tax amount since in some states you pay tax on the price after the trade in has been deducted.

Beware of no haggle pricing that has a doc fee of $750-999.

If they are dealer trading for a specific new car you want that isn't on the lot, tell them up front you are not paying for add-on items like floor mats, paint protection, dealer added stripes, etc. If they can't find one without those things then fine but the negotiated price doesn't go up.

I had one occasion where I was coming back the next day to do the paperwork and pick up the car. I got a copy of the list of charges. It included a city sales tax charge. Since I was fairly sure there was no such thing, I called the tag office and asked if such a tax existed? Nope. I went in to pick up the car and told them of my phone call. They could either remove the charge or explain to the mayor about money they claimed they had to collect for the city. They did some fast back peddling on that one.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

He had two salesmen get in a fist fight over him as a customer.

I once had the polar-opposite experience when I walked into an Audi store ready to buy a car they had on the lot. The idiot 'greeter' who met me at the door actually said that there was no one there who could sell me a car that day What a way to run a business...

[rockaria]

Always be willing to walk away. My favorite time trying to buy a car was when I walked away after the salesman just would not listen to me. As I was walking out, the sales man actually said..."Hey man, I have to eat you know?" I paused and turned and said, "Not tonight." and walked out. Should have seen his face, Priceless.

[GH85Carrera]

My business partner is a guy that actually remains friends with lots of his ex-girlfriends. When they want to buy a car, they like to have him sitting there next to them listing to the deal. One chick was trading in a car and they were offering her a pretty low trade in value, and just making the new car sound cheaper. As the got down to the final deal they were offering her a few grand for her old car. Just before she signed he popped up and said I will buy the old car for that price and give you the money to put against the new car. The salesman had a look of horror on his face as she said just change the deal to no trade in, and we have a deal. My business partner bought the car, and took it to a used car dealer he knows as a friend, and sold it to him for a $1,000 more, and he of course sold it for more.

He has gone to dealerships and repair shops with ex-girlfriends and been able to save the chicks lots of money since he knows cars and does not allow the shop to sell him a new set of muffler bearings and top off the blinker fluid.

[1990C4S]

I am NOT a car buyer, I buy cheap cars from Craigslist, but six months ago a friend asked me to 'help' them buy a used car. he wanted a used Honda CRV in the $20k range, cash purchase, super simple.

I searched high and low for 'good' cars, with zero success, to the point where I was about to give up.

Out of desperation I went to my local Honda dealer. They had a good selection of really clean well serviced cars from lease trade-ins. The sales guy was upfront about service, accidents, and what needed work on the car. He gave me an all in price and I bought the car the next day.

two weeks ago my daughter said she wanted a CRV. Back the same guy, bought a car two days later.

Did I pay a small premium? Probably, but it was super simple, and they are both great cars stil in warranty.

Totally opposite of what I expected form the 'sleazy used car lot'.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I am NOT a car buyer, I buy cheap cars from Craigslist, but six months ago a friend asked me to 'help' them buy a used car. he wanted a used Honda CRV in the $20k range, cash purchase, super simple.

I searched high and low for 'good' cars, with zero success, to the point where I was about to give up.

Out of desperation I went to my local Honda dealer. They had a good selection of really clean well serviced cars from lease trade-ins. The sales guy was upfront about service, accidents, and what needed work on the car. He gave me an all in price and I bought the car the next day.

two weeks ago my daughter said she wanted a CRV. Back the same guy, bought a car two days later.

Did I pay a small premium? Probably, but it was super simple, and they are both great cars stil in warranty.

Totally opposite of what I expected form the 'sleazy used car lot'.

Sounds like you found a good source. I'd stick with that. That's the sort of experience that I want. I may not get the absolute cheapest price, but I'm not hugely overpaying and I don't feel like I'm getting bent over or having to work for it. I'll pay a little extra for a smoother, friendlier experience.

[flipper35]

We have walked out on two dealerships looking at used cars. One, the salesman would never tell us the price of the car, just talked finance and payments. We have never looked at that dealership since. The other we knew what we wanted and about what we should pay. They were asking way too much and we went across the street and bought the same make/model but fully loaded for less than what the first guy was asking. As we walked out he was saying he could do the deal that we asked for. We never looked back. The one we bought now has 194k miles on it. I need a front fender (replaced from a deer collision and aftermarket sucks) and bumper for it though.

[Synchro Joe]

Got the better half a two year old Honda CR-V to replace hers that had 160k on it. Did the homework on pricing, etc. and walked in to see a specific car they advertised. It was still in the back getting prepped, they had bought it from a couple they sold it to who were moving overseas. Short version is I had our number pretty firm, told the sales gal I would only go back and forth twice as far as price and I wanted to see the breakdown of how they got there. This was a CPO and they had included all the items they did, doc fees, taxes, etc. I got out a red pen and lined through 90% of the BS fees, circled what our number was and handed it back. The GM and finance guy came out of their dens and said no way they could do it. I said this is a one time offer, cash price, and no trade in, etc. They huddled and then came back and said OK, so I asked for it in writing good for 24 hours, and they huddled again. We got the car and brought her old one in to see if they were interested and they actually had a customer looking for an old, reliable CR-V to took it for $2k. Got the CPO warranty and updated GPS CD, and out the door. It's a business, but you have to do major homework and have an attitude when dealing with them. Painful process.