buying a used car "reconditioning fee," WTF?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Synchro Joe

Got the better half a two year old Honda CR-V to replace hers that had 160k on it. Did the homework on pricing, etc. and walked in to see a specific car they advertised. It was still in the back getting prepped, they had bought it from a couple they sold it to who were moving overseas. Short version is I had our number pretty firm, told the sales gal I would only go back and forth twice as far as price and I wanted to see the breakdown of how they got there. This was a CPO and they had included all the items they did, doc fees, taxes, etc. I got out a red pen and lined through 90% of the BS fees, circled what our number was and handed it back. The GM and finance guy came out of their dens and said no way they could do it. I said this is a one time offer, cash price, and no trade in, etc. They huddled and then came back and said OK, so I asked for it in writing good for 24 hours, and they huddled again. We got the car and brought her old one in to see if they were interested and they actually had a customer looking for an old, reliable CR-V to took it for $2k. Got the CPO warranty and updated GPS CD, and out the door. It's a business, but you have to do major homework and have an attitude when dealing with them. Painful process.

Nice outcome. You've got to know what's going on. I/we rarely buy cars. I think I've only purschased cars from big dealers a half dozen times in my life. I don't make out too badly, but every time it's a bit more of an education.

[onewhippedpuppy]

My worst story got a sales manager fired. I’m self employed and at one point was considering leasing a car due to the tax advantages. Dodge had a good lease offer on the Charger Scatpack so I decided to go take a look. Talked to the typical salesman, who introduces me to the sales manager before my test drive. The sales manager asked me if I was going to buy today, I told him no because I have other cars to look at before I make a decision. He told me that it’s a 500 HP car (it isn’t) and that they only let buyers test drive their cars. Now getting pissed I asked him how I would know if I wanted to buy a car if I couldn’t drive it, he again repeated that they don’t waste their time with people who aren’t buyers. My wife senses that I’m about to lose my $h!t and tells me that we don’t want to buy a car from this dealership and drags me out.

So to set the stage this is my wife and I driving our nearly brand new family car at the time, a nice Ford Flex Limited. At the time 39, dressed nicely as we were going out for dinner after our test drive, and the only customers in the Dodge dealership. Nothing to justify getting blown off like that. Turns out when telling the story the next day to a contractor friend, he has remodeled three kitchens for the wealthy entrepreneur that owns this Dodge dealership. And he is VERY interested to hear about how one of his sales managers ran off a qualified buyer. I told the story, described the guy, and heard a few days later that he had been fired. Karma!

[Norm K]

Originally Posted by masraum

Any hints/tips for improving the process?

Almost without fail, those buyers who get laid away (pay far more than they need to) seem to be the happiest customers most dealerships encounter. On the other hand are those who grind ... and grind ... and grind ... for every nickle they can save - these invariably seem to be the least happy.

Anyway, to your question:

Rule number one; never, ever, ever tell a dealership up front that you've arranged your own financing or will be paying cash.

They'll often give away most or all of the front-end (sales department) margin if they believe they'll pick it up on the back-end (finance department).

Negotiate your price based on using their financing. When in the F&I office, reject all additional insurance, etching, extended warranties, etc. that you don't want. If you're polite, while at the same time clear and forceful, most won't waste much time trying to sell it to you - they'll just want to finish the paperwork and get you out of there.

From here you can do a couple of things: 1) have them to print the contract so you can read it. Find the "Amount Financed" line and let them know you've changed your mind and will simply write them a check. Understand though, that you risk blowing up the entire deal, as they won't be too happy having this ploy used against them. 2) Make certain there's no prepayment penalty on the loan (probably pretty rare these days, if it's even still legal), sign the papers, go home with your new car and pay it off in full right away.

_

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Norm K

Rule number one; never, ever, ever tell a dealership up front that you've arranged your own financing or will be paying cash.

They'll often give away most or all of the front-end (sales department) margin if they believe they'll pick it up on the back-end (finance department).
_

Right, I've never used dealership financing, but I never tell them that. I always say "we'll deal with that later." and negotiate the price.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Norm K

Almost without fail, those buyers who get laid away (pay far more than they need to) seem to be the happiest customers most dealerships encounter. On the other hand are those who grind ... and grind ... and grind ... for every nickle they can save - these invariably seem to be the least happy.

Anyway, to your question:

Rule number one; never, ever, ever tell a dealership up front that you've arranged your own financing or will be paying cash.

They'll often give away most or all of the front-end (sales department) margin if they believe they'll pick it up on the back-end (finance department).

Negotiate your price based on using their financing. When in the F&I office, reject all additional insurance, etching, extended warranties, etc. that you don't want. If you're polite, while at the same time clear and forceful, most won't waste much time trying to sell it to you - they'll just want to finish the paperwork and get you out of there.

From here you can do a couple of things: 1) have them to print the contract so you can read it. Find the "Amount Financed" line and let them know you've changed your mind and will simply write them a check. Understand though, that you risk blowing up the entire deal, as they won't be too happy having this ploy used against them. 2) Make certain there's no prepayment penalty on the loan (probably pretty rare these days, if it's even still legal), sign the papers, go home with your new car and pay it off in full right away.

_

I used #2 one time with a new F150. Financed to get a big Ford rebate, financed the minimum amount for the minimum amount of time and then paid in full. I think I had to finance $10k for 60 days or something like that.

[911 Rod]

When I bought my Tundra I had a
choice of financing at 2% (I think) or $1000 off.

[cabmandone]

I just go to the dealership and say "here's what I'm willing to pay based on comparable vehicles". If they take it, I have a new vehicle. If not, I walk out. A local learned that when I say "this is the price I will pay" that I mean just that. I told them what I was willing to pay based on another new vehicle. They said "we can't do that" I said "Okay" and bought the other vehicle. When the salesman called me back I told them "you're too late, I bought one"

The low interest rate or money back deal is nothing more than a buydown. I've played that game on equipment. A buyer wants a better rate, I tell them "I can do that but I don't have any negotiation in price". That's because I can use what I would normally negotiate down to, to buy the interest rate down through a lender.

[PorscheGAL]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

You're going to love this.
At a Honda dealership I applied to, their training started out by saying 'Every person that walks onto our lot has $800 of YOUR money in their pocket.'
Needless to say, I didn't stay for the second half of the training session.

At least your manager didn't tell you "don't be afraid to get on your knees in the parking lot" like the manager did me when I tried to sell cars.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

At least your manager didn't tell you "don't be afraid to get on your knees in the parking lot" like the manager did me when I tried to sell cars.

Wow! Clearly that was before #metoo.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL

At least your manager didn't tell you "don't be afraid to get on your knees in the parking lot" like the manager did me when I tried to sell cars.

Did you ask them Is that how you got to be manager?

[mepstein]

Most of our new cars lately have been Honda's. We use the dealer financing when it makes sense. Both my wife and son have 0.9% loans. Cheap money.

[Mike Andrew]

Originally Posted by David

That's why I've given up buying a used car from a dealer unless it's a Porsche or other high end dealer. The BS just takes my temper to redline too fast.

These days the discount on a new car vs the over priced used car market makes buying a used car almost a worse financial choice.

Correct! Just bought a 2020 Forester a few months ago. I was looking for a used, less than 10K mile CPO model but the prices were not far off the price of new. For an extra few bucks, I will take new any day and not worry about proper break in and previous abuse. But, with the prices of used these days it made $$ sense to this retired Purchasing guy.

And, pay attention to the damn fees and walk if necessary. I bought a 2012 Forester demo with 2000 on the clock and they refused to waive the Transportation Fee of $750. I stood up to leave when the 2nd "my boss" guy refused. He capitulated and I got the car. Why would I pay a fee on a car they used to sell other cars?

And, I always pay cash so their profits are minimized on my "out the door" price. Having spent a career haggling some serious aerospace contracts, I have little patience for haggling car numbers. The price is either good or not and there are other dealers.

[flipper35]

We bought a new sedan in 2014 because a used one was only $1700 less and two years older with 25-35k miles and the 4 pot instead of the V6 we wanted.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Mike Andrew

Correct! Just bought a 2020 Forester a few months ago. I was looking for a used, less than 10K mile CPO model but the prices were not far off the price of new. For an extra few bucks, I will take new any day and not worry about proper break in and previous abuse. But, with the prices of used these days it made $$ sense to this retired Purchasing guy.

And, pay attention to the damn fees and walk if necessary. I bought a 2012 Forester demo with 2000 on the clock and they refused to waive the Transportation Fee of $750. I stood up to leave when the 2nd "my boss" guy refused. He capitulated and I got the car. Why would I pay a fee on a car they used to sell other cars?

And, I always pay cash so their profits are minimized on my "out the door" price. Having spent a career haggling some serious aerospace contracts, I have little patience for haggling car numbers. The price is either good or not and there are other dealers.

That is part of why we ordered the car we wanted. My wife used the web site to "build her car" the way she wanted it. The used Macans at the time were just a couple grand cheaper. We took a test drive and did what most people do on a test drive, do an acceleration run, and that is NOT part of the break in procedure in the manual. We did indeed do the proper breaking in the manual. And all the options and colors are precisely what she wanted.It cost a few grand more but happy wife = happy life.