Should people be forced to take the vaccine?

[Por_sha911]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-york-city-waitress-fired-after-not-getting-the-covid-19-vaccine/ar-BB1dLWTK
Short version: waitress fired for not taking the Covid vaccine. Note that she is not an "anti-vaxxer" and has a reason based on what science currently knows.

You might say "she wasn't forced" but lets get real here. Her employer is taking away her livelihood. They are also discriminating against new hires unless they have the vax. Is this the beginning of a slippery slope? What about
We won't hire you if you:
-go to concerts because they are COVID super-spreaders
-live in a certain part of town which is predominantly white/black/purple because the infection rate is much higher
-over the age of 55 because you are more likely to be infected by the virus
-are not monogamous and more likely to get AIDS

[Sooner or later]

Depends on the business. Some hospital systems and states require hospital workers to get a flu vaccine. An exemption can be filed and given due to religious or medical reasons. EEOC has vaccination guidelines that have been on the books for years.

[flatbutt]

I support her concern. If she gets tested that should be good enough to keep working.
IDK about her clientele but I've never been hugged or expectorated upon by a waitress. I see the employers PoV too but firing her seems extreme.

[Por_sha911]

IMO this is more than a medical issue - this is a civil liberty issue.

[ckelly78z]

What about nursing home employees who are around the most vulnerable ?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/02/01/nursing-home-workers-reluctant-get-covid-vaccine-cdc-study-finds/6664743002/

[Sooner or later]

Since it is under an EUA I wouldn't push the issue. Pfizer is planning to apply for full authorization in April. Not sure about Moderna or time to approve after application.

The EEOC standards have been in place for many years. Do a search and you can read their specific statement on covid vaccines.

[Rikao4]

as above..
comes down to how hard each side wants to push...
Hospital's here 'strongly suggested'...
and blowback was quite surprising ...
so they let it go...
I don't want to hear..
' papiere bitte..'

Rika

[Sooner or later]

Two states make flu vaccinations a requirement for hospital workers. (Medical or religious exemptions)

Colorado
Hospitals must offer vaccine and report status
Employees can only decline flu shot due to medical exemption

Illinois
Hospitals must offer vaccine and report status
Employees can only decline flu shot due to medical or religious exemption

[VINMAN]

Nope, should not be forced. First responders here were offered it as soon as it was made available. Surprisingly large number of us are turning it down. There is going to be huge pushback if they ever try to make it mandatory for us.

.

[Zeke]

Non vaccinated people don't necessarily become super spreaders. But everyone, vaccinated or not, should double down on PPE and the workplace should do everything possible to keep the place clean.

Some things businesses and homes can do to up the system are to install a separate HEPA air filter, if not several. Using heaters that have an open resistance coil kill the virus instantly on contact or near contact. Gas fired patio heaters do the same. The only difficulty with systems like this are how much air is purified per hour. And if in the open, where is the hot air going? It could be just blowing down the street and not really recirculating the air.

And continuous cleaning of all surfaces that people can touch. Food servers should handle plates with hand wipes, not gloves that touch all plates including removing empty plates. The kitchen staff needs to do the same.

Of course people working in proximity to others, such as food servers, should have a double or triple mask and a face shield.

Another way to safely handle food and drink is to roll it out on a cart and park it at the table. The patrons serve and place the food on their own. It goes on and on nad can get pretty OCD, but this is a must.

If you don't see enough protective procedures in place, it's your gamble. Remember, this isn't the ATM machine, you have to remove your mask to eat and drink.

I think our most challenging concerns surround the business of moving product of any nature from one to another including paper and coin money. Grocery stores are next on the high level risk factor simply because you end up moving things between you and another unless you're using the self checkout, which I expect to become almost exclusive in the future.

Liquor and convenience stores much less. Places like self serve gas stations have got the best circumstances that I have to engage with. Same with the ATM. I can do all my business with gloves immediately tossed, or a wipe. I never enter any building w/o a wipe in my hand and a spare in a baggie in my pocket.

Things like Apple pay are fantastic although I have yet to use that app. I expect as us old geezers die off this will become the default. IDK what happened to the so called touchless CC, but if they ever work out the problems, that's right up there.

[Sooner or later]

Zeke, Chase sent me a contactless card two weeks ago. Tap and go.

https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/contactless

[dad911]

The nurse that gave us the second dose told me she wasn't vaccinated.

I shouldn't think a restaurant can require that from an employee, and suspect there is more to the story.

[petrolhead611]

There is serious talk here in the UK of a Vaccination passport, and then if you haven't got one you won't be allowed to enter venues.

[HardDrive]

This boils down to property rights for me. If a business owner says you have to be vaccinated to work there, or to use the facility, end of story.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Is this the beginning of a slippery slope? What about

Ah - the slippery slope and the whatabouts.

Harddrive said, "This boils down to property rights for me. If a business owner says you have to be vaccinated to work there, or to use the facility, end of story."

As a business owner I tend to agree. On the other hand it's hard to find good employees. Once you have a good one you don't want to let them go. It's a fine line between accommodating an employee and giving them special treatment that is unfair to the other employees.

It sounds like she had a legitimate concern. The restaurant handled it poorly. From what I know of the story I would have tried to find a way to accommodate her.

[brainz01]

Should not be a requirement. This is a personal choice/liberty issue. This is a personal responsibility issue. And while I'm not anti-vax, there are real scientific reasons to not want to be over vaccinated. If YOU are at risk, then YOU should get vaccinated (or not, it's your choice).

And in this case, the vaccine isn't even necessary for much of the population (eg: under 25 yrs for example which have almost no risk of death/complications). If they get the virus, who cares - - if the at-risk amongst them have been inoculated, even a "super spreader" event will have limited impact.

And natural inoculation/immunity via the spread amongst those with strong immune systems will occur. Just as it's historically occurs with other corona viruses.

This was no doubt a worse than average virus, with many unfortunate excess deaths amongst the at-risk population (primarily the metabolically unhealthy snd aged). But this was not The One to end humanity. Not even close. The phrase mass hysteria comes to mind. Thanks, Media.

To force vaccines on all individuals for this virus is nothing more than a control play.

[sugarwood]

It is my civil liberty to drink & drive. How dare they take away my freedumbs !

[GH85Carrera]

It is no different than vaccinations for kids to go to schools. Measles, rubella, mumps, polio, and on and on. Only one thing stopped that scourge. Vaccines.

[brainz01]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

It is my civil liberty to drink & drive. How dare they take away my freedumbs !

Nice straw man. Doesn't work. One can't take a vaccine and be inoculated from the injuries caused by the drunk driving of another.

[Tishabet]

IMHO nobody should be forced to get the vaccine or do anything else to their bodies... Civil liberties issue. But, that's not the actual issue here despite the misleading thread title. The actual issue here is an employment issue and I have no problem whatsoever with people losing their jobs because they won't get vaccinated, completely separate issue.