Show me the Data

[red-beard]

From that "Conservative, far right Newspaper"

Experts ask to see data behind new policy
Joel Achenbach, Yasmeen Abutaleb, Ben Guarino and Carolyn Y. Johnson

The Washington Post - July 28, 2021

WASHINGTON - New recommendations from federal health officials this week on when vaccinated Americans should don face masks came with a startling bolt of news: People who have had their shots and become infected with the delta variant of the coronavirus can harbor large amounts of virus just like unvaccinated people. That means they could become spreaders of the disease and should return to wearing masks indoors in certain situations, including when vulnerable people are present.

But the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention did not publish the new research. In the text of the updated masking guidance, the agency merely cited "CDC COVID-19 Response Team, unpublished data, 2021."

Some outside scientists have their own message: Show us the data.

"They're making a claim that people with delta who are vaccinated and unvaccinated have similar levels of viral load, but nobody knows what that means," said Gregg Gonsalves, an associate professor at the Yale School of Public Health. "It's meaningless unless we see the data."

One other excellent point, later in the article, while the hospitalizations are up, the breakthrough infections appear to occur in people with compromised immune systems, where the vaccine did not work well.

In the eight hospitals run by Houston Methodist, there are about 300 covid-19 patients, triple the number in early June, Musser said. Most new cases involve the delta variant. He estimated that 20 percent of the Covid-19 patients were fully vaccinated before becoming infected.

But he cautioned that most of these patients have underlying medical conditions that impaired their ability to mount an immune response after being vaccinated.

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Experts-ask-to-see-data-behind-new-policy-16347545.php

[1990C4S]

Several weeks ago, on Meet The Press, Dr Fauci was asked if he would wear a mask if he visited an area with a high Delta variant infection rate. He was unequivocal that he would, despite being fully vaccinated. So this CDC announcement didn't surprise me. But the lack of data or reasoning behind it did. The CDC does not sell their message very well, and they don't seem to be learning.

I'm not sure why people (left and right) express shock (or glee) when a vaccinated person gets the virus. NONE of the vaccines are 100% effective. So there WILL be asymptomatic cases and there WILL be vaccinated people who die from it.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I'm not sure why people (left and right) express shock (or glee) when a vaccinated person gets the virus. NONE of the vaccines are 100% effective. So there WILL be asymptomatic cases and there WILL be vaccinated people who die from it.

Exactly. The vaccines are not a magical shield that COVID-19 cannot penetrate. That's sci-fi.

The vaccines give you body a taste of the virus, so to speak, in order to better prepare the body for when the virus actually enters the body. Antibodies are inside the body, and not a shield around it.

The issue is, that in some people, the vaccine is not sufficient enough to kick start the body's production of antibodies, or not enough antibodies are produced as a result of the shot.

It's all about risk mitigation: is something that is 90% effective sufficient to do battle against the virus? So far, the data has shown that it is. While infection rates may go up, people aren't being hospitalized and/or dying at the same rates as last spring and summer. That means the vaccines are working as designed.

[stevej37]

[unclebilly]

My sister in law is a nurse in the UK. She was vaccinated with Phizer in March. Her husband also works at a hospital and was vaccinated shortly afterwards.

They both have Covid right now.

[manbridge 74]

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

[Crowbob]

What the ever-changing suggestions by the government regarding mask-no mask, vacc-no vacc, etc. tells me is they don’t know szit about this manufactured, unnatural, bio-weapon from China.

And we are far from being over with it.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

My sister in law is a nurse in the UK. She was vaccinated with Phizer in March. Her husband also works at a hospital and was vaccinated shortly afterwards.

They both have Covid right now.

How sick are they?

[jyl]

To some degree I sympathize with the CDC. They have seen scientific data, with all its complexity and nuance, distorted and misrepresented to the extreme. However, the answer is not to delay disclosure, but to be better at disclosing. Every CDC data release should come with infographics and summary points, that people can simply look at instead of having to wade through the minutae which would also be released, and CDC should have really skilled spokepersons who do the talking, instead of asking scientists to become public communicators.

[Chocaholic]

And meanwhile...no one is talking about treatment advances.

That alone raises my suspicions more than anything.

[Crowbob]

I actually am sympathetic to the idea that this COVID experience can in no way be a sinister plot by evil-doers with intent to subjugate all of us.

However, I was also sympathetic to the notion that the FBI, CIA, and NSA were incapable by virtue of their loyalty to the rule of law, to attempt a coup.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

How sick are they?

I don’t know. We just heard an hour before I posted this and it’s the middle of the night there.

They have 2 young kids so hopefully they are ok.

I also don’t know what strain they have. It’s not good.

[jyl]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

How sick are they?

I guess my wife spoke with them briefly. They are exhausted. They were on vacation and think the kids picked it up at a zoo and passed it to them. That’s all I got.

[Geronimo '74]

So a confirmation of a well known fact.
After being vaccinated you can still get the disease.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

So a confirmation of a well known fact.
After being vaccinated you can still get the disease.

I think we should clarify that based on this single data point with a sample size of 2, you can get the delta variant after you have been vaccinated with Phizer.

Given that my SIL is a nurse and my BIL also works in a hospital, it is impossible to know how many times they were exposed to Covid. My SIL has worked on the a Covid ward for numerous shifts. I think it’s fair to say that the vaccines reduce the likelihood of contracting the disease when exposed to the virus but don’t guarantee you wont get it.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

I think we should clarify that based on this single data point with a sample size of 2, you can get the delta variant after you have been vaccinated with Phizer.

Given that my SIL is a nurse and my BIL also works in a hospital, it is impossible to know how many times they were exposed to Covid. My SIL has worked on the a Covid ward for numerous shifts. I think it’s fair to say that the vaccines reduce the likelihood of contracting the disease when exposed to the virus but don’t guarantee you wont get it.

What really bothers me in recent years is how many arguments are based on if it doesn't yield zero it doesn't work and must be thrown out.

[red-beard]

Vaccines do not stop you from getting exposed. Your body has the tools to fight it quickly. This is the reason that 90% of detected infections are in asymptomatic people. Yes you were exposed. Yes you have detectable virus in you. No you don't have a real case.

As noted in the article, the real breakthrough cases, with disease symptoms present, occur in immune compromised people. These are the 10% of vaccinated cases that have a positive case.

Vaccinated people should get the antigen test to see if they have an active case, not the PCR test.

[McLovin]

[Chocaholic]

Treatment advances?

Crickets.