Decorum and being a gentleman

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I am not Catholic but have attended events at a Catholic Church and did my best to be as respectful as I possibly could (including dressing appropriately). I would not dream of going to any church without a suit (even a church where they dress casually). I would also never wear a hat in a building (much less a church) and certainly not at the table anywhere. Even McDonalds. I would consider doing so considerably disrespectful to the group and institution to do so. It is one thing to be poor and dress as beat you can afford, but anyone can remove their hat. I would never shame my parents/family by doing so. I hope my kids and grandkids never shame me by doing something like that. If so, I will know the that I was not the father I tried to be.

Why do you think it is so disrespectful? I mean, what’s the origin?

[fintstone]

Tradition. Supposedly relates to medieval knights removing their helmets entering a building as a signal of friendly intent. The military also retains headgear inside when under arms.

Wearing a large hat like a cowboy hat or one of the stove top hats like in Lincoln's era would spread road dust or block other's view. Ever been to a sports event and sat behind a fellow with a 20-gallon hat?

The main thing to me is that everyone knows it is good etiquette to remove the hat...so not doing so is essentially giving everyone in the establishment the finger.

[Baz]

[Bill Douglas]

Hat indoors? Never ever ever. I'd fear a bolt of lightening would come down and get me.

Or Mr Rowland from Hadlow Preparatory School would **** me ** *** ****

[sc_rufctr]

I'm a daily hat wearer and hat etiquette can be complicated. (I have a "Winston Churchill" sized collection )

Note: Non of this applies to women!

Generally if you're in a private area hat's should not be worn but if you're in a public area they can be.

For instance: The train station - Hats are OK... In someones home - Nope.
In the foyer of a building or a doctors waiting area - Again hats are OK.
- But you should remove your hat once you enter someones area/office or the doctors office.

A church is considered a "private" area so hats on when out side but as soon as you cross the threshold hat's should always be removed.

Outdoor Funerals/Graveyard: Hats are OK but they should be removed during the prayers and when the coffin is being lowered.

[drcoastline]

We have been in this slow decline for quite some time. It isn't just the hat, it is manners proper etiquette and civility, being polite all around, table manners, holding the door for a lady, etc. But it goes both ways, women aren't the same either.

I personally began to notice it about eighteen years ago while trying to teach my daughters manners. Not too many years back I took heat from many of the same people posting on this thread. I don't recall exactly the thread, but I posted about teaching my daughters proper table manners the need. I got answers like does it matter, bigger issues in the world, etc.

Sadly, yes, I think there was an unwritten memo sent around. I saw it and we can see in the school system where a lot of the problems take place. Teachers are no longer referred to as Mr. or Mrs. Jones it is Ms. Kim or Mr. Bob, test scores are rounded down to bring those failing on par with those doing better.

Society in general isn't being round up made better it is being rounded down. Bad behavior, criminal behavior is being accepted. The thug life is not only acceptable it is welcomed and promoted.

[drcoastline]

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by upsscott

Why do you think it is so disrespectful? I mean, what’s the origin?

Why does it matter what the origin is?

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

For those of us in our 60's and 70's we were raised differently ( generally speaking ) than many that followed . Today there are so many booger eating knuckle draggers everywhere. All they care about is themselves. Doesn't matter if they are male or female.

Simple example: I was taught to hold the door open for whoever is behind me . It is rare anymore for a man or woman to say thank you .When they don't I loudly say you are welcome, that usually gets a $hit faced look . There are millions of examples of self absorbed dweebs , just look around . It may even be you or a loved one . Every family has them .

I do the same, almost always getting a thank you for those older than me and often from those that are about my age. As people appear young than me the percentages go down. From that I have concluded that they just weren't taught to say thank you or even hold the door for someone behind them. Certainly, they were not taught taught to hold the door for a lady and let her go first.

So, for me fairness to the younger generation, it is hard for me to get mad at them, if they weren't taught, they don't know. If they don't know, well they don't know and if they don't know that it is polite then how do I get mad at them? All I can do is try and teach those in my circle.

[sc_rufctr]

...

At my daughters wedding last April some of the "guests" turned up in standard street cloths. (Jeans and T Shirts)
My ex BIL was there and he looked like he just threw on whatever was in front of him. He was always a lazy prick.

A lot of people just don't care anymore.

[hbueno]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Why does it matter what the origin is?

It certainly matters to understand the reasons behind various etiquette rules. For me, "I told you so" isn't good enough. Give me a cogent reason and then I may choose to go along.

For example, holding a door open for someone is obviously courteous and thoughtful. Wearing a hat doesn't affect other people.

BTW, I don't wear hats, so it's not a problem for me either way.

[KFC911]

I began wearing a cap about the age of 40... I too know Mohs .

That said, I was taught "southern manners", like using sir, m'am, holding doors, the whole nine yards and it's ingrained ...

I'm a disrespectful SOB too... evidently

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by hbueno

It certainly matters to understand the reasons behind various etiquette rules. For me, "I told you so" isn't good enough. Give me a cogent reason and then I may choose to go along.

For example, holding a door open for someone is obviously courteous and thoughtful. Wearing a hat doesn't affect other people.

BTW, I don't wear hats, so it's not a problem for me either way.

Maybe you should read everything and understand the question before commenting? This was Upscotts question which is where my question came from. "Why do you think it is so disrespectful? I mean, what’s the origin?"

But I get it. We can see from your answer and answers on just about any subject, anything that is a historic society norm needs to be rebutted.

Why does it matter to understand the reasons? Why do you classify holding a door "courteous and thoughtful" but removing your hat you don't classify as "courteous and thoughtful."?

Couldn't you just as easily state not holding a door "doesn't affect other people." just as much as not removing your hat?

and yes, if you do not wish to remove your hat, hold a door, remove your shoes whether you understand, agree or not you are free to not go along and leave. You would also agree then if you do not "follow along" others should be free to ask you to leave or not attend and you will happily without incident leave or not attend, right?

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I'm a daily hat wearer and hat etiquette can be complicated. (I have a "Winston Churchill" sized collection )

Note: Non of this applies to women!

Generally if you're in a private area hat's should not be worn but if you're in a public area they can be.

For instance: The train station - Hats are OK... In someones home - Nope.
In the foyer of a building or a doctors waiting area - Again hats are OK.
- But you should remove your hat once you enter someones area/office or the doctors office.

A church is considered a "private" area so hats on when out side but as soon as you cross the threshold hat's should always be removed.

Outdoor Funerals/Graveyard: Hats are OK but they should be removed during the prayers and when the coffin is being lowered.

There is a lot to know.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by KC911

I began wearing a cap about the age of 40... I too know Mohs .

That said, I was taught "southern manners", like using sir, m'am, holding doors, the whole nine yards and it's ingrained ...

I'm a disrespectful SOB too... evidently

There is a big difference between not knowing and doing something intentionally. If you don't know you can be excused. In the OP the young man was asked to remove his hat. He did so begrudgingly and then put it back on, that is being disrespectful.

[KFC911]

I reckon . I know some folks will get their panties twisted if I wear a cap indoors.... bad manners.

I DGAF...

No tie or jeans in church would have sent you straight to hell when I was a youngin too

[Seahawk]

I think the OP was concerning RCIA: I am assuming the young man is seeking the RCIA of his own volition.

Here: https://www.catholicfaithstore.com/daily-bread/rcia-welcome-catholic-church/

If so, take the f'ing hat off, it is that simple.

Hats indoors, besides what is asked by the church you wish to join, means zero to me. In my part of Maryland ball caps are almost a requirement

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

There is a lot to know.

...

That's an excellent video, thanks. I was taught how/when to wear a hat in the Army.

The most important point was Public vs Private area - If in doubt take it off.

[daepp]

I’m 58 and have been a practicing Catholic all my years. The RCIA director and the Priest let everyone down by not insisting on some level of dress code - esp. that hat. And they let that young man down as well, for not making the standards/decorum clear to him.

Re my own attire, I once heard it said that if you dress better for a night out than you do for church, you’re doing it wrong!

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Tradition. Supposedly relates to medieval knights removing their helmets entering a building as a signal of friendly intent. The military also retains headgear inside when under arms.

Wearing a large hat like a cowboy hat or one of the stove top hats like in Lincoln's era would spread road dust or block other's view. Ever been to a sports event and sat behind a fellow with a 20-gallon hat?

The main thing to me is that everyone knows it is good etiquette to remove the hat...so not doing so is essentially giving everyone in the establishment the finger.

See, that’s a good explanation. Thanks Fint.