Decorum and being a gentleman

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

You are a rare breed and I admire that

I recently had a judge after a hearing hold me back after everyone was leaving. I thought OMG what did I do? He gave me a lecture because my tie knot wasn’t all the way up, by a few millimeters. I said geez judge, I even have my top button buttoned and I didnt notice the knot slipped down a little, sorry. He went on and on about the army and the olden days…..

Minutes later, I’m walking to the elevator down the hall and as always, I removed my tie because it’s choking me. I get in the elevator alone and lo and behold, the judge steps into the elevator and looks at me without the tie. Hahah he wasn’t happy. He lectured me all the way to my car. Despite that, we got along good and I liked him

Thank you. I appreciate that.

When I was a young man, I hated wearing a tie worse than death. Eventually, my career took me to where a suit was necessary every day. It was torture at first. Then I realized that I was simply doing it wrong. I was not buying shirts with the right size neck. My neck was really large for my body/arm length. My chest was large to my arm length and my wait was a bit smaller than most with my chest size. Once I got that figured out, I increased the shirt neck size and a larger tapered shirt with the correct arm length. once I could button the shirt and get a couple fingers in there, they were pretty darned comfortable. The tie was really not the problem as a tied one is no tighter than your shirt, even if tightened up enough to look absolutely perfect.

I quickly improved my dress (suit, tie, shoes) and actually became known for looking dapper, but professional. Lots of young guys came to me for advice (some time women sent them to me (used me as an example). Women (young and old) love it. I really like dressing up in a tux or suit now (especially since I have some very nice clothes). I accumulated a lot of classic suits and clothes over time, so it was never difficult to wear the appropriate outfit. It is like accumulating the tools needed to do any job well. It is just another uniform. Of course, if my job did not require it, I would only need one. But it would be perfect. If nothing else, but weddings and funerals. Respect.

When I rode the train to work (or drove), I did not put on my jacket and tie until I arrived as they looked like you slept in them if you did (and they wore out quickly). I tied my tie just before my stop and put it on...and then my jacket. I removed them after boarding the train. I also saved a lot on cleaning as I could wear the suit again without sending it out (or could steam out the light wrinkles). Also, it is a bit more comfortable to commute in shirt sleeves (like you in the elevator). Do it often and it becomes as easy as pie.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by Superman

Oftentimes you make a great deal of sense to me. This is not one of those times. Yes you are correct, this is not about Jesus' judgment but rather, it is about man's. Jesus doesn't give a rip what we wear.

Tell you what....I invite you to illustrate your disdain for manners in this way: Next time you have to appear in court and the judge walks in, when the Bailiff says "All rise," you sit with your arms crossed and sneer at the judge.

'All rise' is an order of the court. Noncompliance to a court order is contempt. Noncompliance to a court order while in court is also very stupid.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Fixed it for you.

The true tragedy here is that someone was more concerned with decorum than a soul who could end up in Hell because they cared about what he wore instead of his spiritual condition. Again, I suggest you read the story of where Jesus said that the religious uptights were 'white washed tombs' because they were more concerned with regulations than in a heart toward God or the parable in Luke 18:10-14 (I'd be happy to post them for you if you don't have a Bible).

You didn't fix anything. First, what makes you think the Usher was mad? It seems the person wearing the hat had the issue. He was at a solemn ceremony and asked to take his hat off off, while I don't know I am sure it was stated politely at least the first time. That person then took it upon themselves to put it back on. Then someone came and said something a second time.

Why would you make such an idiotic statement? "The true tragedy here is that someone was more concerned with decorum than a soul who could end up in Hell because they cared about what he wore instead of his spiritual condition."

I don't see anywhere where he was asked to leave. The young man was taking part in a solemn religious ceremony, presumably something he asked to be a part of? If so why would you buck the traditions of something you have ASKED to be a part of? You do as asked.

It is not a persons place to ask why, it is a persons place to do as asked and to follow the traditions and rules of what ever institution you are visiting. If you don't want to follow the rules and traditions then don't go.


Etiquette 101: The Dos and Don'ts of Visiting Mosques in the Middle East

Do take off your shoes before you enter
Muslims take off their shoes every time they enter a mosque. They expect visitors to follow their lead and show the same respect when they enter a mosque.

Women: Please do cover your hair
Muslim women cover up during prayer. Their traditional dress covers their hair and is wide, non-transparent, and long sleeved. It is respectful of non-Muslim women to also wear hijab, a scarf that covers their heads, when visiting a mosque.

Do wear proper clothes
As mosques are sacred, it is not appropriate for either men or women to wear short clothes that show much skin. Long trousers and shirts or t-shirts are suitable for men, and maxi long-sleeved dresses, skirts and blouses or trousers and long-sleeved shirts with a headscarf are suitable for women.

Do turn off your mobile
As Muslims go to mosques to worship God, there must be nothing that interrupts their practice. It is very disturbing to hear a phone ringing, or someone talking on the phone. So, Muslims and visitors must switch off their phones or put them on silent mode before entering a mosque.

Don’t eat or drink inside a mosque
Muslims don’t eat or drink inside mosques. It is not forbidden, but they fear affecting its cleanliness and tidiness. However, on some occasions they gather in mosques, bringing sweets to share and to celebrate. These occasions include Ramadan, both Eids and social events like weddings. Everyone works together afterwards to clean up.

Don’t raise your voice
Muslims look for peace as they worship God inside mosques. During your visit, make sure that you don’t make any noise, speak loudly, laugh hard or talk on the phone. Keep the calmness of the place intact and show respect.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes. If I am wearing a hat or cap. it comes off before I cross the threshold. Every time. My house, your house, Walmart, the mall...even McDonalds. It is how you show respect for others that are inside. The employees that are working hard and the other diners.

Some McDonalds prepare their burgers perfectly (as perfectly as materials allow) and are hot and fresh. The fact that all cannot/do not do so is telling. I once worked in fast food and no one ever got a cold burger or one that was not perfectly made (as best as I could do so). I ensured the other employees did the same. Standards are important. It did not matter if I was serving the Governor or a poor laborer. I assumed everyone worked hard for their money and deserved the best product I could provide. That was also as sign of respect. Maybe if folks could start showing a bit more respect to others, folks that made/sold fast food would catch on. The equipment and materials are there, I guess maybe parents (and managers) did not teach employees to respect others as my parent did me. I hope I taught my kids the same.

I remember picking up my daughter once (I think she was in med school) to go to a fairly nice restaurant (maybe a steak house). It was very hot out (over 100) and she wore flip flops. Her mother and I looked at her feet and told her to go put on some shoes. She was unhappy about it ("everyone wears flip flops"). We told her that we did not...and would not. She changed her shoes. Sure enough, some others were eating there in flip flops...but that did not change a thing. It is just not what we (or she) was raised to do. I hope she learned from that and did not just think we were idiots. One does what they think is right, regardless of what others do.

Perfectly said.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Thank you. I appreciate that.

When I was a young man, I hated wearing a tie worse than death. Eventually, my career took me to where a suit was necessary every day. It was torture at first. Then I realized that I was simply doing it wrong. I was not buying shirts with the right size neck. My neck was really large for my body/arm length. My chest was large to my arm length and my wait was a bit smaller than most with my chest size. Once I got that figured out, I increased the shirt neck size and a larger tapered shirt with the correct arm length. once I could button the shirt and get a couple fingers in there, they were pretty darned comfortable. The tie was really not the problem as a tied one is no tighter than your shirt, even if tightened up enough to look absolutely perfect.

I quickly improved my dress (suit, tie, shoes) and actually became known for looking dapper, but professional. Lots of young guys came to me for advice (some time women sent them to me (used me as an example). Women (young and old) love it. I really like dressing up in a tux or suit now (especially since I have some very nice clothes). I accumulated a lot of classic suits and clothes over time, so it was never difficult to wear the appropriate outfit. It is like accumulating the tools needed to do any job well. It is just another uniform. Of course, if my job did not require it, I would only need one. But it would be perfect. If nothing else, but weddings and funerals. Respect.

When I rode the train to work (or drove), I did not put on my jacket and tie until I arrived as they looked like you slept in them if you did (and they wore out quickly). I tied my tie just before my stop and put it on...and then my jacket. I removed them after boarding the train. I also saved a lot on cleaning as I could wear the suit again without sending it out (or could steam out the light wrinkles). Also, it is a bit more comfortable to commute in shirt sleeves (like you in the elevator). Do it often and it becomes as easy as pie.

I’ve done all that. I’m 50 and went to Jesuit high school so I’ve been wearing a tie daily since I was 15, except during college.

Now I work from home. I get on my zoom court with pajamas on bottom and my bunny slippers and only need to wear the suit and tie part on top for a few minutes a day, and the zoom video is so distant that nobody can really see if the top button is buttoned. What a relief. And, I save a ton of money because I was buying a new suit every 6 months because I always had a habit of wearing holes in the elbows quickly

I haven’t put my dress shoes on in 2 years and my feet thank me

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I'm not projecting anything, it was your statement.

i know you are but what am i so .... pathetic.

old men are such a joke.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Try going to a Michelin star restaurant and you will get thoroughly scrutinized for your attire by the Maitre De.
I tried to go with NO tie and I was brought to a cabinet to pick one out. They had socks there too.

Manners & culture starts @ home as a child @ the stores in what you see being bought, the dinner table and in the kitchen. Continental style dictated a lot in our family home.

[bivenator]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

i know you are but what am i so .... pathetic.

old men are such a joke.

I hope you don't become one, an old man that is.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by bivenator

I hope you don't become one, an old man that is.

every day is a lesson in choosing a different life than so many here, and most boomer men i know. what a miserable existence.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

every day is a lesson in choosing a different life than so many here, and most boomer men i know. what a miserable existence.

LOL, the miserable existence must be living with such a chip on one's shoulder? Poor little feller.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

LOL, the miserable existence must be living with such a chip on one's shoulder? Poor little feller.

>chip on my shoulder
>getting so mad about someone wearing a hat in church to birth a 8+ page thread about it

ho kay bro.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

I’ve done all that. I’m 50 and went to Jesuit high school so I’ve been wearing a tie daily since I was 15, except during college.

Now I work from home. I get on my zoom court with pajamas on bottom and my bunny slippers and only need to wear the suit and tie part on top for a few minutes a day, and the zoom video is so distant that nobody can really see if the top button is buttoned. What a relief. And, I save a ton of money because I was buying a new suit every 6 months because I always had a habit of wearing holes in the elbows quickly

I haven’t put my dress shoes on in 2 years and my feet thank me

Then you were far ahead of me. I went to public school and everyone was very poor. We could not be very choosy in what we wore (but had our best set aside for Sunday). None of my clothes ever fit right as they came off the Kmart clearance rack and I was often the second or third in the family that wore them.

I never wore a nice tie that needed to be tied until I was in basic training (just a cheap clip on to church). There were a lot of us there in the same boat. Of course the shirts they issued really fit poorly so it never really dawned on me that they were not supposed to choke you. I eventually figured it out (but much later).

Although a small bit uncomfortable, being able to dress nicely once I could afford to do so certainly has had its positive moments. It is amazing how a well-fitted military mess dress or a nice suit or tux can make a man look and feel like a better man. Even if he is still a simpleton like me. I actually wish I had more occasions to dress up to go out.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by VINMAN

Even 1%er bikers have rules of decorum and respect when it comes to greeting others or entering their club houses or others establishments.
It's not just about religious beliefs.

.

Yeah, this ^^

The Hell's Angels certainly have rules of decorum. And even street gangs have approved "uniforms"...

[speeder]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Thank you. I appreciate that.

When I was a young man, I hated wearing a tie worse than death. Eventually, my career took me to where a suit was necessary every day. It was torture at first. Then I realized that I was simply doing it wrong. I was not buying shirts with the right size neck. My neck was really large for my body/arm length. My chest was large to my arm length and my wait was a bit smaller than most with my chest size. Once I got that figured out, I increased the shirt neck size and a larger tapered shirt with the correct arm length. once I could button the shirt and get a couple fingers in there, they were pretty darned comfortable. The tie was really not the problem as a tied one is no tighter than your shirt, even if tightened up enough to look absolutely perfect.

I quickly improved my dress (suit, tie, shoes) and actually became known for looking dapper, but professional. Lots of young guys came to me for advice (some time women sent them to me (used me as an example). Women (young and old) love it. I really like dressing up in a tux or suit now (especially since I have some very nice clothes). I accumulated a lot of classic suits and clothes over time, so it was never difficult to wear the appropriate outfit. It is like accumulating the tools needed to do any job well. It is just another uniform. Of course, if my job did not require it, I would only need one. But it would be perfect. If nothing else, but weddings and funerals. Respect.

When I rode the train to work (or drove), I did not put on my jacket and tie until I arrived as they looked like you slept in them if you did (and they wore out quickly). I tied my tie just before my stop and put it on...and then my jacket. I removed them after boarding the train. I also saved a lot on cleaning as I could wear the suit again without sending it out (or could steam out the light wrinkles). Also, it is a bit more comfortable to commute in shirt sleeves (like you in the elevator). Do it often and it becomes as easy as pie.

I rarely wear a suit or tie but the ironic thing is that a really great suit should be the most comfortable thing a man can wear, or one of them, at least. It should not bind or hinder movement anywhere and the pants should have plenty of room where needed, etc. The dress shirt and tie should not choke you in the least, as you pointed out.

The problem is that an ill-fitting suit feels awful and too many men only have those. My old man lived in a suit for decades and they were all custom made. Wish I was his size, I'd have a trove of them. My brother rarely wears suits but the ones he has are custom made in Europe or the Middle East, depending on where he is when he needs one. This one was Europe, needed it quickly:

[speeder]

And that is a guy who always wears a ball cap to protect his bald head from the sun but he knows when to leave it at home.

[fintstone]

Yes, an expensive suit looks really good, but even a moderate one in a classic style looks and feels great if it fits perfectly. I made sure mine did. If you are uncomfortable, you generally don't look or act your best.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Yes, an expensive suit looks really good, but even a moderate one in a classic style looks and feels great if it fits perfectly. I made sure mine did. If you are uncomfortable, you generally don't look or act your best.

Absolutely. Does not need to be super expensive.

[daepp]

I wonder how Punk would feel if, while boarding a commercial aircraft, he saw his pilot dressed like Moe from Springfield's eponymously named Tavern?

[upsscott]

Well, that is called a uniform. I don’t think that there is a church uniform.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by upsscott

Well, that is called a uniform. I don’t think that there is a church uniform.

Sure there is, and that's the point.