Decorum and being a gentleman

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Absolutely. Things would be a lot better if all men had a "code of conduct" they subscribed to. .

At least the people that matter adhere to a meaningful code. "I dare do all that may become a man; Who dares do more is none." As for the other opinion, those words are unimportant and I do not hear them.

[L8Brakr]

I'm all for opening the door (building, car, whatever) for all women (and men older than me....but not for the car ), always use please and thank you whenever appropriate, know how to match the dress code for whatever event I'm attending, and would not personally wear a hat in a church.

Haven't been in years, though I was an acolyte as a pre-teen at my parents insistence. Last time was 20 years ago at the request of a girlfriend. It was one of those non-denomination, live-band, video-board sing-a-long places. I recall a number of t-shirts, tennis shoes, shorts.....probably some hats too. One attempt was enough and never went back. I would, however, be freshly showered, hair washed and combed as well (I do think a sweaty/dirty head of hair can be more off-putting than keeping the hat on). To each his own on that topic.

Some here pining for the days of our forefathers decorum and gentlemaness, however, should be careful with that line of thinking IMO.

Do we really want to return to societal standards when the vast majority of the pics in the "Most Beautiful Women" thread would be viewed as decadent/pornographic? I'm damn glad we decided to move on from that........"Any woman who shows her ankles in public must be a whore or witch!".....level of decorum.

There are plenty of other examples, but most of you know what they are.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by daepp

Sure there is, and that's the point.

So you get paid to wear a church uniform? You think the pilot wears his uniform to church? This is so stupid.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by upsscott

So you get paid to wear a church uniform? You think the pilot wears his uniform to church? This is so stupid.

You don't need to be paid to wear a uniform. There are all sorts of uniforms and there is a uniform of sorts that is acceptable at church, a temple, etc.

To your point, in my town, we had a police officer who was also a retired Marine. On Sunday when he attended church he often wore his dress blues.

Shortly after September 11th he resigned his position with the police department and re-enlisted, he wore his uniform to church before shipping out.

[NY65912]

As a kid in the 60's I wore a suit and tie to church as well as my father. My mom and sister wore dresses, hats and gloves. Heck, anything that was deemed important required us to "dress".

I did and still do always hold the door for whomever is behind me, get a thanks about 50% of the time. Please, thank you and manners were expected and taught in my public school, and we got graded on manners.

My son went to a Xaverian Brothers high school and order and decorum was mandatory. He is a gentleman and now my 6 yo grandson is a perfect gent. On his report card the comments were what a perfect gentleman he is and how kind he is to everyone.

Respect is the issue, and has to be taught in the home from a young.

[gacook]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

I've thought about that too. Here he is trying to do the right thing but at the same time not comporting himself to what most would consider standard. So it is a fine line to point out the short coming and risk him walking away or going with it and setting new lower standard. Plus, I think "dress" in this setting is jeans vs suit, not whether one wears a hat. For the record: I had on jeans.

When I was stationed in Germany, the US Army Europe Command Sergeant Major had a commercial on Armed Forces TV. The gist was this: NCO's... when you walk by something that isn't up to standard and ignore it; you have created a new lower standard (thru your non-action). Although generally directed at NCOs it was a great lesson for everyone, officers included.

Been out a while? Now, an NCO cannot even make on the spot corrections of a soldier that isn't his/hers. Discipline, respect, military bearing, and basic "soldiering" are a thing of the past. It's sad.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by gacook

Been out a while? Now, an NCO cannot even make on the spot corrections of a soldier that isn't his/hers. Discipline, respect, military bearing, and basic "soldiering" are a thing of the past. It's sad.

Retired for 6 years now. My friends that are still in and other officers and senior NCOs that I run into all say similar: "I can't wait to retire." and it is basically for the reasons you state.

A good friend teaches Command and General Staff College. He's been talking about finding a new job recently.

Oh yeah, my quote from the USAREUR CSM was circa 2003.

[gacook]

Ha, your CSM quote is from circa when I got out ('05). Went back into the Reserves 7 years later, went Warrant, and just couldn't "deal" with the new Army. I still work for the Army as a civilian, but the soldiers I work with/around...some are great, most aren't.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by gacook

Been out a while? Now, an NCO cannot even make on the spot corrections of a soldier that isn't his/hers. Discipline, respect, military bearing, and basic "soldiering" are a thing of the past. It's sad.

That is incredible.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by gacook

Been out a while? Now, an NCO cannot even make on the spot corrections of a soldier that isn't his/hers. Discipline, respect, military bearing, and basic "soldiering" are a thing of the past. It's sad.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

That is incredible.

About 10 years ago I was walking in the PX parking lot with another officer, my junior. As we were walking by an E6 that was on his cell phone he turned his back to us to avoid rendering the proper courtesy. (edit: this was at an Infantry Division installation where the rules are followed)

I stopped and helped him understand the err of his ways. He tried explaining to me that he was on the phone, as if that suspends the rules. Nice try but no dice. BTW, my subordinate's head about exploded. Shocked that I would even make an effort, but not by the NCO's actions.

That was 10 years ago and a mid grade NCO, I can't imagine how bad things are now.

[Tobra]

I can't even imagine, I had no idea.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

That is incredible.

Inconceivable fits better.

Does this mean the Navy does not ride on the shoulders of Chief Petty Officers any more?


No wonder our military does not work right now.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by NY65912

My son went to a Xaverian Brothers high school and order and decorum was mandatory. He is a gentleman and now my 6 yo grandson is a perfect gent. On his report card the comments were what a perfect gentleman he is and how kind he is to everyone.

.

Xaverian was a tough school back in the day!

My brother went there back in the early 70s The brothers used to beat the crap out of you.

.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

About 10 years ago I was walking in the PX parking lot with another officer, my junior. As we were walking by an E6 that was on his cell phone he turned his back to us to avoid rendering the proper courtesy. (edit: this was at an Infantry Division installation where the rules are followed)

I stopped and helped him understand the err of his ways. He tried explaining to me that he was on the phone, as if that suspends the rules. Nice try but no dice. BTW, my subordinate's head about exploded. Shocked that I would even make an effort, but not by the NCO's actions.

That was 10 years ago and a mid grade NCO, I can't imagine how bad things are now.

The one time in my very limited military experience that I had a "salute" event was at Lackland AFB. I was changing barracks and made the mistake of carrying my duffle over my right shoulder. A WAF bird Colonel was approaching so at the appropriate time I dropped my duffel stood to and rendered a salute. She stopped, returned the salute then leaned in and said "Airman, next time just say hello Colonel and give me a nod. That'll be fine".

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Does this mean the Navy does not ride on the shoulders of Chief Petty Officers any more?

I hope not.

As I have written here before, my Grandfather was a Warrant Officer Electrician in WWII (he joined after PH) and two of his older brothers were already Chiefs when WWII in the Pacific ramped up.

When I received my commission they all, uh, all had some advice for the Ensign

So many stories.

I was the "lawyer" at a Chiefs Initiation during my first squadron tour for the lead E-6 on my Detachment that was selected for E-7.

The squadron Maintenance Master Chief was the Judge for the ceremony (who I got along with very well since when I was flying post maintenance test flights I would just STFU and listen to him, go through the MAF's with him and fly until the bird was up), pulled me over before the ceremony and said, "It is is an honor to be asked to do this...that said, I am going to **** all over you. Enjoy."

He did and I did.

No lawn, no clouds.

[NY65912]

Vinny, I failed to mention that my brother in law was the dean of discipline there during my son's attendance.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by NY65912

Vinny, I failed to mention that my brother in law was the dean of discipline there during my son's attendance.

Ha! That helps!

My parents always threatened to send me there. I went to a different catholic high before I got the boot. More into the girls than the schoolwork! The nuns there where no easier. They were tough as hell. Between them and my parents keeping me in line, it kept me out of trouble.

.

[Baz]

What about a drive-in church? Is it frowned upon to wear flip flops?

(asking for a friend)

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by upsscott

I could care less if someone wears a hat indoors.

My boss in the way back was one of the smartest dudes I ever met when it came to accounting.

He would say "For all intensive purposes" rather than for all intents and purposes.

Despite his accounting acuity he would demonstrate profound ignorance with this statement as he was saying something that he had no clue of the meaning and belittled intelligent people who had to suffer through his drivel.

Not that he was not intelligent. He was just lazy.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

My boss in the way back was one of the smartest dudes I ever met when it came to accounting.

He would say "For all intensive purposes" rather than for all intents and purposes.

Despite his accounting acuity he would demonstrate profound ignorance with this statement as he was saying something that he had no clue of the meaning and belittled intelligent people who had to suffer through his drivel.

Not that he was not intelligent. He was just lazy.

I could care less, Bob.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Baz

What about a drive-in church? Is it frowned upon to wear flip flops?

Not at a Catholic Mass. No problem. Shorts, t-shirts, okay. But for a man to wear a hat in Mass is similar to attending a Baptist church wearing a KKK robe. It is JUST - NOT - DONE.