Interesting facts about EV use.

[GH85Carrera]

I almost never pay attention to electric charging spots in parking lots. Much like maternity or wedding dress shops, they are irrelevant to me and I just don't even look.



This summer we drove to the Pocono mountains in far east Pennsylvania. On the way we stopped at Gettysburg for a full day, and then Valley forge. At Valley Forge they have a typical busy parking lot for a large federal park. A very large parking lot, and some bathrooms in the corner at the start of the hiking trails. We needed to avail ourselves of those facilities. As we drove close, we saw 4 spots reserved for electric car charging. All four were out of order. You can see the bathrooms in the background. Since the charging was broken, I did not fee bad at all parking nice and close, almost like having a handicap spot.

So this is a federal park, and they had 4 spots, all out of order. Maybe it was the one day they were broken. And yea there were 4, I cropped this photo so the signs could be read.

No doubt the charging spots will become more available, and be in spots drivers will use in the future.

[stevej37]

^^^ Michigan started last year installing charging stations at their state parks.
All charging is free for park users....daily or yearly.

[jamesnmlaw]

Seems the general consensus is that present grids are not sufficient to charge the number of all-electric vehicles now on the road. Perhaps a hybrid vehicle is a reasonable stop-gap? Might give US an opportunity to enhance the grid for an all-electric future of motoring, continue improvements to the ICE and batteries, and to refine availability of other yet non-mainstream fuels like hydrogen or natural gas. US needs to lead, not follow or get out of the way.

[IROC]

I live in backwoods east TN and I see EVs all the time. The charging stations all work and they are full of cars on a regular basis. My son has a Tesla Model 3. Having spent some time in that car, I would own one for sure. In fact, IMHO, if Porsche built an electric Cayman that could accelerate like that Tesla Model 3, I would have to seriously consider buying one. Anyway, he's put over 75k miles on his Tesla and has had zero issues with charging, etc. He literally drives it all over the place.

While I am confident that EVs are the future, I also must admit that I am a card-carrying petrol head. There's room in the world for both.

[stevej37]

Honda will build a Hydrogen fueled CR-V in 2024

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/honda-cr-v-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicle-ohio-2024/

[fintstone]

Like most new technology, it will be popular when it is ready. Endless government regulations to force people to use what they can neither afford nor is appropriate for their use is just a bad idea/bad government. So is subsidizing immature technology.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by IROC

I live in backwoods east TN and I see EVs all the time. The charging stations all work and they are full of cars on a regular basis. My son has a Tesla Model 3. Having spent some time in that car, I would own one for sure. In fact, IMHO, if Porsche built an electric Cayman that could accelerate like that Tesla Model 3, I would have to seriously consider buying one. Anyway, he's put over 75k miles on his Tesla and has had zero issues with charging, etc. He literally drives it all over the place.

While I am confident that EVs are the future, I also must admit that I am a card-carrying petrol head. There's room in the world for both.

Isn't the "backwoods east TN" where you live the home of a National Laboratory and the 2,200-acre East Tennessee Technology Park? One would expect that there. It is not the same in most rural communities.

Right now, EVs are expensive, not suited for many things, and there is simply not enough electricity to run them. They are not even particularly environmentally friendly. They are much like the county in Maryland that has outlawed natural gas and oil to heat homes. A single solution for a problem that needs many.

They probably are the future; they just are not the present (for most people).

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by jamesnmlaw

Seems the general consensus is that present grids are not sufficient to charge the number of all-electric vehicles now on the road. Perhaps a hybrid vehicle is a reasonable stop-gap? Might give US an opportunity to enhance the grid for an all-electric future of motoring, continue improvements to the ICE and batteries, and to refine availability of other yet non-mainstream fuels like hydrogen or natural gas. US needs to lead, not follow or get out of the way.

This.


The battery tech allows 10 minute charging. The US does not and imho will not ever have the infrastructure...too much corruption.

[Cloggie]

Originally Posted by jamesnmlaw

Seems the general consensus is that present grids are not sufficient to charge the number of all-electric vehicles now on the road. Perhaps a hybrid vehicle is a reasonable stop-gap? Might give US an opportunity to enhance the grid for an all-electric future of motoring, continue improvements to the ICE and batteries, and to refine availability of other yet non-mainstream fuels like hydrogen or natural gas. US needs to lead, not follow or get out of the way.

....are we short of gasoline? Last time I checked the Canadians had a lot of oil sands...and the Arabs aren't running out any time soon.

D.

[hbueno]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Does "nuanced" really mean funded by the electric vehicle folks?

Did you read it? If yes, is there anything they stated that is inaccurate?

[daepp]

Originally Posted by jamesnmlaw

Seems the general consensus is that present grids are not sufficient to charge the number of all-electric vehicles now on the road...

Imagine what it's like in California. Every summer we have "rolling blackouts" where the grid is shut down due to overloading. Forget about residential, you cannot imagine what that does to industry, who have to plan for said shut-downs, and who take many hours to come back on-line. For some industries, this can mean shutting down several hours beforehand, and then take even more to restart once power is restored. Many end up losing most of the production for the day due to the shut down.

And now they mandate all EV by 2035?

And as of now they've done ZERO to improve the grid.

And as of now they've got no new reliable sources of electricity production...

Oh veh!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jamesnmlaw

Seems the general consensus is that present grids are not sufficient to charge the number of all-electric vehicles now on the road. Perhaps a hybrid vehicle is a reasonable stop-gap? Might give US an opportunity to enhance the grid for an all-electric future of motoring, continue improvements to the ICE and batteries, and to refine availability of other yet non-mainstream fuels like hydrogen or natural gas. US needs to lead, not follow or get out of the way.

EV may be great/fine for some places. I've always thought that hybrid was the way to go. I haven't really looked into any of it too much since I'm not planning of going that route any time soon.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by hbueno

Did you read it? If yes, is there anything they stated that is inaccurate?

Was there something inaccurate in the article I posted that needed more nuance?

I absolutely read it. It is an industry-generated spin piece that dismisses obvious concern over potential restrictions as a lurid rumor which are far out of proportion to the facts. It is not more "nuanced" but rather, somewhat misleading.

My post discussed potential banning most EV use in Switzerland in stage three of the proposed power conservation plans as part of a plan to limit the driving and use of EVs in case of winter shortages to prevent blackouts. The plan also limits a lot of other energy usage under similar circumstances.

Driving EVs could be banned in Switzerland unless in cases of “absolutely necessary journeys” in stage three of the plans. The country also plans a stricter speed limit on highways in the recently proposed plan.

Reportedly, Switzerland imports a good deal of their electricity from France and Germany, but supply is down and expensive this winter (as throughout Western Europe).

The fact that the Swiss are including this in their planning for this winter needs no nuance or pretense that it is not an accurate report. Supplies of electricity are pretty finite...everywhere.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by fintstone

So is subsidizing immature technology.

Other countries are doing it tho, mom! Why can't we do it here?

No but for real tho if we want to stay ahead/#1, any new tech should be subsidized to stay ahead of other countries that are subsidizing it as well. What shouldn't be subsidized are mature things like oil, the meat industry, etc.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Other countries are doing it tho, mom! Why can't we do it here?

No but for real tho if we want to stay ahead/#1, any new tech should be subsidized to stay ahead of other countries that are subsidizing it as well. What shouldn't be subsidized are mature things like oil, the meat industry, etc.

I don't support subsidizing industries/companies. Certainly not Tesla or SpaceX. I am a bit less opposed to subsiding things that are actually necessary to life...food, milk, energy, healthcare, medicine.

If we simply stopped sending our tech abroad to be manufactured/copied and imposed tariffs on countries that used forced slave labor, that would subsidize U.S. industries plenty.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I don't support subsidizing industries/companies. Certainly not Tesla or SpaceX. I am a bit less opposed to subsiding things that are actually necessary to life...food, milk, energy, healthcare, medicine.

If we simply stopped sending our tech abroad to be manufactured/copied and imposed tariffs on countries that used forced slave labor, that would subsidize U.S. industries plenty.

Without Space X subsidies, we'd probably still be relying on Russian rockets for most of our space related ambitions, bro.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Without Space X subsidies, we'd probably still be relying on Russian rockets for most of our space related ambitions, bro.

I specifically addressed Space X subsidies.

We only needed Russian and China launch support because we incorrectly decided (politically) to not have our own. We should have never provided either with access to our technology.

[Pazuzu]

Remember when everyone was lamenting that Tesla owners would have to replace batteries after 8 years?? Remember?

25% of all Model S cars are model year 2012-2014, 8-12 years old. Are you seeing a dead Model S for every 3 working ones? No? Me either. I don't see Craiglist loaded with 10 year old Teslas with dead battery packs being sold for pennies on the dollar, as we were also promised.

I wonder what happened? Are 25% of all Model S owners driving cars that have dead batteries? Is there a secret underground cottage industry of putting gas engines into old Teslas? Because, clearly the nay-sayers would have been correct, as they always are, and we wouldn't be seeing a case where engineering overbuild battery packs, designing them to survive long past the potential break down date...

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

Remember when everyone was lamenting that Tesla owners would have to replace batteries after 8 years?? Remember?

25% of all Model S cars are model year 2012-2014, 8-12 years old. Are you seeing a dead Model S for every 3 working ones? No? Me either. I don't see Craiglist loaded with 10 year old Teslas with dead battery packs being sold for pennies on the dollar, as we were also promised.

I wonder what happened? Are 25% of all Model S owners driving cars that have dead batteries? Is there a secret underground cottage industry of putting gas engines into old Teslas? Because, clearly the nay-sayers would have been correct, as they always are, and we wouldn't be seeing a case where engineering overbuild battery packs, designing them to survive long past the potential break down date...

Who is everyone? According to Musk, 21 to 35 years should be the battery lifespan. Seems like it was the Chevy Volt with the short-lived battery issue.

Don't people with bad batteries just set their Teslas on fire or crash them on autopilot then collect on the insurance?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Who is everyone? According to Musk, 21 to 35 years should be the battery lifespan. Seems like it was the Chevy Volt with the short-lived battery issue.

So, they're better cars than what the other manufacturers are making? A million miles out of a battery pack, seems like the destructive cost of manufacturing would wash out at that point. Take worn out cars, pull the battery packs, then either put them into a new car, or collect them for OTR trucks, or keep them at home as part of the Powerwall setup. Recycling! Problem solved, there are now no reasons to not buy a Tesla.