F1 2023

[David]

Originally Posted by astrochex

Yup. There’s hope then there is false hope. RB should clinch the manufacturers championship tomorrow.

Love the Japanese crowd, very passionate fans.

Japan may have the best F1 fans in the world. I was lucky enough to spend a few weeks there many years ago. F1 is my go to conversation topic especially if I see some memorabilia around and there’s plenty of it around Japan. I had more F1 discussions in the 3 weeks than I’ve ever had in such a short period.

[Noah930]

I turned on the TV right after the fireworks, but why did Perez come back out for 2 token laps before officially retiring his car? He wanted to make a pit stop and serve a 5-second penalty? What difference did that make?

[Heel n Toe]

I think it was assumed he might try for fastest lap.

[red 928]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I turned on the TV right after the fireworks, but why did Perez come back out for 2 token laps before officially retiring his car? He wanted to make a pit stop and serve a 5-second penalty? What difference did that make?

This is why they sent him back out:




seriously:
if he retired without serving the penalty,
the stewards could impose a grid penalty at the next race.

[rfuerst911sc]

Congratulations to RB on winning the constructors championship . They certainly earned it .

[oldE]

RB has more points than Mercedes and Ferrari combined and the bulk of those are Max's. Do you suppose Checo is feeling somewhat demoralized about now?
McLaren have made some fantastic progress through this year.

Best
Les

[rfuerst911sc]

I think Checo is done at RB after next year . I don't care how mentally tough you are , getting your butt handed to you at almost every qually and race has to get to you . You physically train for hours , you train on the simulator . You are in endless discussions with your engineers and team . And nothing makes you faster than your team mate .

I don't think Checo is done in F1 . His experience could be useful to a lesser team . But at RB it's game over . And with Liam Lawson and other young hot shoes lurking in the shadows it's just a matter of time .

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I turned on the TV right after the fireworks, but why did Perez come back out for 2 token laps before officially retiring his car? He wanted to make a pit stop and serve a 5-second penalty? What difference did that make?

The announcers said the rule book says if you can't serve the 5 second penalty because of a retirement, they give you a grid penalty at the next race. So he went out, did a lap and was called into the pits for a pit stop, and they did the 5 second penalty, on a race where it made zero difference, and no grid penalty next race.

I have been watching F1 for 30 years, and that is the first time I remember any car that was pulled into the garage go back out to do laps. It was never officially "retired" until the penalty was served. After that, yep, officially retired.

They even waited on sending him out until Max came in for his last pit stop. Then the pit for Perez was a nice slow pit stop after the penalty was served. Back in the garage.

They really knew the rule book. Back in the glory days of Porsche winning at endurance races they read the rules carefully, and found many 100% legal loop holes that allowed them an edge. Just follow the rule book and be legal. Much like the USA tax laws that are insane complex. Tax avoidance with legitimate deductions is 100% legal, tax evasion is where you can go to jail.

[chapo]

Lawson seems to be pretty solid. Why not sign him as a youngster as opposed to keeping Danny Ric? his best days are behind him now.

[rfuerst911sc]

^^^ Here's a theory . Riccardo drives next year for AT . He replaces Checo for 2025 . Lawson signs with AT . They groom him for 2-3 years at AT then move him to RB when Riccardo retires .

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

I think Checo is done at RB after next year . I don't care how mentally tough you are , getting your butt handed to you at almost every qually and race has to get to you . You physically train for hours , you train on the simulator . You are in endless discussions with your engineers and team . And nothing makes you faster than your team mate .

I don't think Checo is done in F1 . His experience could be useful to a lesser team . But at RB it's game over . And with Liam Lawson and other young hot shoes lurking in the shadows it's just a matter of time .

100%. How much defending does the guy require week after week? He's consistently 0.5 to 1 sec behind his team mate, starts way down for one reason or another, and pretty much ALL his overtaking moves yesterday reeked of desperation. It's gotta be awful to be given the best car in F1 and realize you're not World Champion material. They shoulda kept Albon or Gasly and given them more time, they've sure given Perez way more time than the others. Must be tough to be Max's team mate.

Also found it curious NOT hiring Lawson, depends on how locked down his contract is I guess. He looks like he has the measure of tsunoda or will in no time, possibly Ricciardo too (we'll see). Not often that Suzuka is boring...

LAstly, part of me is a bit suspicious of McLaren being able to operate such a turnaround within the confines of the budget cap when Mercedes (not exactly wankers) have been unable to do the same in 2 seasons... Pass the popcorn.

[Eric Hahl]

Folks need to look at the points. If Max wasn't there who would be winning the championship? Ummm, Checo. I guess the rest of the field should retire too, cause they are behind Checo.
I guess I just don't get the Checo bashing. Why not just praise Max for the brilliant drive as checo is really close to the rest of the field.

1 Max Verstappen NED RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT 400
2 Sergio Perez MEX RED BULL RACING HONDA RBPT 223
3 Lewis Hamilton GBR MERCEDES 190
4 Fernando Alonso ESP ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES 174
5 Carlos Sainz ESP FERRARI 150
6 Charles Leclerc MON FERRARI 135
7 Lando Norris GBR MCLAREN MERCEDES 115
8 George Russell GBR MERCEDES 115
9 Oscar Piastri AUS MCLAREN MERCEDES 57
10 Lance Stroll CAN ASTON MARTIN ARAMCO MERCEDES 47
11 Pierre Gasly FRA ALPINE RENAULT 46
12 Esteban Ocon FRA ALPINE RENAULT 38
13 Alexander Albon THA WILLIAMS MERCEDES 21
14 Nico Hulkenberg GER HAAS FERRARI 9
15 Valtteri Bottas FIN ALFA ROMEO FERRARI 6
16 Zhou Guanyu CHN ALFA ROMEO FERRARI 4
17 Yuki Tsunoda JPN ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT 3
18 Kevin Magnussen DEN HAAS FERRARI 3
19 Liam Lawson NZL ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT 2
20 Logan Sargeant USA WILLIAMS MERCEDES 0
21 Nyck De Vries NED ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT 0
22 Daniel Ricciardo AUS ALPHATAURI HONDA RBPT 0

[Deschodt]

What's the saying? Lies, damned lies and statistics ? lol
What the above shows me is Checo in the same car has 1/2 the points of Max. Half.
You may expect that driving the best car in the field this year he would be scoring about 80% of MAx's points. (25 pt vs 18 is about >70% + the occasional reversal with a couple of wins when Max is off his game?)

Also I think any of the top 9 here (can't believe stroll is 10th!) in that second car would do better. Without a doubt. Hamilton, Norris and Alonso in particular. It's not really Checo bashing, I like and feel for the guy, but how do you defend suzuka and tons of previous races? awful qualifying followed by running into every other car on the grid? OR, are we instead saying the redbull is barely better than the rest (based on Checo alone) and Max is worth ALL that gap ? Either way how do you like your cake ?

[Eric Hahl]

Oh there's no defending the poor performance and mistakes Checo made at Suzuka. That was hideous. Probably frustration at its best showing there.

Yes, Checo has just more than half the points of Max but 33 more than the next guy. Could it be more, Sure. Do I think Max is worth the gap...yes, he is. He is on top of his game right now. When it clicks, it clicks. I don't care who his teammate might be, they'd all get a spanking by Max. Second seat is second seat no matter what. Especially at RB.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Eric Hahl

Oh there's no defending the poor performance and mistakes Checo made at Suzuka. That was hideous. Probably frustration at its best showing there.

Yes, Checo has just more than half the points of Max but 33 more than the next guy. Could it be more, Sure. Do I think Max is worth the gap...yes, he is. He is on top of his game right now. When it clicks, it clicks. I don't care who his teammate might be, they'd all get a spanking by Max. Second seat is second seat no matter what. Especially at RB.

Yeah I'll agree with that ! the 2nd redbull seat is a curse right now ;-)
Other fun questions: Was Sargeant really an upgrade from Latifi ?
What is happening to Stroll right now? has he quit mentally ?
Why is Bottas still in F1 ?

[URY914]

Max is a F1 AI Bot and not a real person. If you watch him when he gets out of the car he unplugs a bunch of wires. Those wires is how "he" communicates with the car. Therefore he is the car.

[Eric Hahl]

Originally Posted by URY914

Max is a F1 AI Bot and not a real person. If you watch him when he gets out of the car he unplugs a bunch of wires. Those wires is how "he" communicates with the car. Therefore he is the car.

I knew it!!! A Maxinator.

[oldE]

There are some terrible disparities between team mates. The Ferrari duo are most closely matched with 15 points between them. I suppose you could say Albon has eclipsed Sargent (21 - 0). I have to wonder how long it will be before Lawrence says to Lance,"Sorry Son we can't afford you."
In a car Max described as a "rocket ship " on the cool down lap, Checo was frustrated and making desperate moves which earned him a penalty.
Part of me would like to see Carlos in the RedBull, just to see.......

Best
Les

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by oldE

There are some terrible disparities between team mates. The Ferrari duo are most closely matched with 15 points between them. I suppose you could say Albon has eclipsed Sargent (21 - 0). I have to wonder how long it will be before Lawrence says to Lance,"Sorry Son we can't afford you."
In a car Max described as a "rocket ship " on the cool down lap, Checo was frustrated and making desperate moves which earned him a penalty.
Part of me would like to see Carlos in the RedBull, just to see.......

Best
Les

He bought the team just to have a seat for his son to be in F1. I suspect he will just sell the team and let his son fight for the seat before he fires his son.

[oldE]

Yeah Glen, I know how it went, but I'll bet there have been days when he was tempted.

Best
Les