Tourist mini sub missing off titanic

[masraum]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Baz - you are smarter than this.

The ROVs capable of titanic depths were days away - boats carrying these don’t move fast. If they were presumed alive, they had to search using whatever evidence was available.

They knew that by the time the ROVs could be dispatched, if the hull was intact, the likelihood of survivors was low, so they focused search efforts in other places.

Right, probably only a handful of boats and ROVs capable of this search worldwide. The boats moving at a max of what 20-30 mph and maybe having to travel 1000, 2000, 3000 miles to get there (and they are probably already in the middle of doing something).

[jyl]

I feel slightly bad that I want to know more about the condition of any human remains. It’s not intended to disrespect the victims, but you gotta admit, it is interesting to wonder what in fact happens to a human body in this situation. Even the Navy is surely interested: the CG initially said they didn’t expect to find recognizable remains, now they apparently have.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jyl

I feel slightly bad that I want to know more about the condition of any human remains. It’s not intended to disrespect the victims, but you gotta admit, it is interesting to wonder what in fact happens to a human body in this situation. Even the Navy is surely interested: the CG initially said they didn’t expect to find recognizable remains, now they apparently have.

I have to imagine that this isn't the first time that there have been human remains at extreme depth, and the military probably knows what happens.

I don't want to see pics or anything, but I'm curious about the effects as well.

[The Synergizer]

I'd forgotten about him as a director, but his legacy of high quality movies is mind boggling. Pretty good for a guy that was once a truck driver.

Originally Posted by flatbutt

Just finished watching Cameron's Titanic. He did a great job of capturing the panic and horror of the sinking.

[Mahler9th]

At least one of the posts I contributed to this thread mentioned an academic at Duke whom appears to have knowledge of the effects of implosions on humans. She is has also written about submersibles, including a CSA vessel incident that resulted in the loss of lives way back when.

Other posts provided links to information that suggests that at least one completed Titan (with hull monitoring) was tested at great ocean depths in an unmanned configuration at least on once, and at least one Titan hull was perhaps removed from service and examined after a dive.

Perhaps more will be learned.

[Seahawk]

The lack of process rigor is odd to me. As a former pilot and operational flight test lead, aviation has specific processes to follow. Two links below that we tailored our testing to.

https://www.juran.com/blog/guide-to-failure-mode-and-effect-analysis-fmea/

https://quality-one.com/fmeca/

The environment the Titan entered is so much more dangerous than aviation...even a Rotor-head learns how to auto-rotate.

Quals and certifications for passenger aircraft are onerous because they should be.

[Mahler9th]

Perhaps of interest:

https://stanleysubmarines.com/

Stanley took at least one dive in Titan and heard cracking sounds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mSq6ibKKXQ


Stanley:


"When Karl Stanley was aboard the Titan for an underseas excursion off the coast of the Bahamas in April 2019, he felt there was something wrong with the vessel when loud noises were heard.

The day after his trip, Stanley sent an email to Stockton Rush, the CEO of the vessel's operator OceanGate Expeditions, sounding the alarm on suspected defects.

"What we heard, in my opinion ... sounded like a flaw/defect in one area being acted on by the tremendous pressures and being crushed/damaged," Stanley wrote in the email, a copy of which has been obtained by CNN.

"From the intensity of the sounds, the fact that they never totally stopped at depth, and the fact that there were sounds at about 300 feet that indicated a relaxing of stored energy /would indicate that there is an area of the hull that is breaking down/ getting spongy," Stanley continued."

""He canceled that year's dives and took that carbon fiber and cut it up, found the defects and made a new one at the cost, I believe, of well over $1 million," Stanley said."

Stanley's self-designed sub is used for tourism, perhaps amongst other things.

[VINMAN]

They haven't given any info as far remains but a literal square inch of tissue can be considered "remains"..

.

[Mahler9th]

Perhaps of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW3-f32VF0g

2:26 a passenger on the first Titan Titanic dive provides some additional perspective.

[Mahler9th]

Stockton Rush 2021 US patent #us patent 11119071 B1

Monitoring the integrity of composite structures.

Easy to download.

[Racerbvd]

They might have been better off with this.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Baz - you are smarter than this.

The ROVs capable of titanic depths were days away - boats carrying these don’t move fast. If they were presumed alive, they had to search using whatever evidence was available.

They knew that by the time the ROVs could be dispatched, if the hull was intact, the likelihood of survivors was low, so they focused search efforts in other places.

Sure - but can you tell me on what day and hour the request was put in to get the Horizon Arctic with the ROV on site?

I believe it was already in port at St John's at the time.

I think they lost some time - that's all.

[GH85Carrera]

I have seen some photos of a standard Styrofoam coffee cup before and after being put under the pressure of the deep ocean. It just gets so compressed it is the size of a thimble. I certainty don't know just what happens to humans exposed to those pressures, but I suspect the flesh is just shredded, and the bones crushed. It would not be a pleasant site.

As I remember, the USAF said they needed only as much as a foot and ankle to say they have enough of a body to bury.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I have seen some photos of a standard Styrofoam coffee cup before and after being put under the pressure of the deep ocean. It just gets so compressed it is the size of a thimble. I certainty don't know just what happens to humans exposed to those pressures, but I suspect the flesh is just shredded, and the bones crushed. It would not be a pleasant site.

As I remember, the USAF said they needed only as much as a foot and ankle to say they have enough of a body to bury.

styrofoam is foam, which means that it's mostly air (hence the insulating properties). It's not a solid object or fluid filled. The human body has very little air in it, it's mostly fluid.

In the experiment video there's a bubble of water in view of the camera. The bubble shrank a bunch before the light bulbs, bottles, etc... were crushed. Those items were crushed because they were full of air. Air is compressible, and fluid is generally not compressible.

[911 Rod]

Is it just me that has stopped watching videos about this after the conclusion?
Sooo many YouTubers throwing in their 10 cents worth.
I get all the info I need from you guys. lol

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

Is it just me that has stopped watching videos about this after the conclusion?
Sooo many YouTubers throwing in their 10 cents worth.
I get all the info I need from you guys. lol

I didn't watch many videos to begin with, but unless someone comes up with something concrete, I probably won't watch any more.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by masraum

styrofoam is foam, which means that it's mostly air (hence the insulating properties). It's not a solid object or fluid filled. The human body has very little air in it, it's mostly fluid.

In the experiment video there's a bubble of water in view of the camera. The bubble shrank a bunch before the light bulbs, bottles, etc... were crushed. Those items were crushed because they were full of air. Air is compressible, and fluid is generally not compressible.

A human has around 5-6 liters volume of air in lungs and other respiratory tract, skull (sinus, nose, mouth, ears, throat), intestines (where farts come from). That air volume will be (almost) instantly compressed to around 0.3% of its original volume, via water suddenly pressing in at around 5000 psi, as the body collapses down unevenly - instantly collapsing in air-containing areas but not in adjacent non-air-containing areas. The water pressure causing that collapse is uniform, but the body's resistance to pressure is not. I would guess that fat has least resistance, muscle a bit more, muscle with bones under it (ribcage?) a bit more, skull has more resistance, etc. Not sure of pre-existing orifices in skin will make any difference. Anyway, if pressure is uniform but resistance is not as body is instantly but unevenly collapsed, seems a recipe for a shredding.

[jyl]

This makes me wonder if humans could be adapted to extreme deep sea pressures by 1) flooding lungs and sinuses with water, 2) somehow suppressing the gag/choke reflex, 3) artificially oxygenating blood (basically an ECMO machine).

[fisher22]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

Is it just me that has stopped watching videos about this after the conclusion?
Sooo many YouTubers throwing in their 10 cents worth.
I get all the info I need from you guys. lol

It’s not just you. Although the technical/engineering discussion here is quite interesting, general interest is waning. And, you’ll notice that news outlets have mostly moved on as well - except for perhaps the imminent legal troubles. Most discussion I see now is basically taking a “what did you expect” tone.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by jyl

This makes me wonder if humans could be adapted to extreme deep sea pressures by 1) flooding lungs and sinuses with water, 2) somehow suppressing the gag/choke reflex, 3) artificially oxygenating blood (basically an ECMO machine).

The ears are a major problem. Just dive to the bottom of the standard back yard pool at 12 feet and the pressure on your ears feels like a lot. It is a challenge for some scuba divers as well.

It is one reason they have to descend slowly. I made the mistake of riding along in our airplane on a trip up to northern Missouri when I had a sinus infection. We went up to just 9,000 feet but I thought my nose was likely to pop off and spatter on the G-1000 instrument panel. The pilot dropped altitude, and we just rode in hot air to make it a lot better on my sinus but sweatier.