992 ST is out, Yawn, another multi millionaire toy

[Deschodt]

Yeah, I'm not even posting a link to it, it's all over "all the internets" thanks to Porsche's guerilla marketing... not like anyone here will buy one anyway (not based on $, but availability)...
1963 will be made and likely sold by tomorrow night ;-) A car designed for feel and involvement more than ultimate performance (but it has that too), lighter, a close box ratio (finally!!!), nice homage to the early S/T..

$300K with an option or 2 ($291+), plus what, $200K of dealer markup probably? Or more ?

Where is Porsche going? They're becoming Ferrari... You can't even buy these if you win the lotto tomorrow, you need to have a relationship with the dealer (read you bought all the cayennes they can't sell). It makes me sad.

Porsche were the brand I chose to follow and buy (mostly used cars) from as I could. Good engineering, robustness, perfect on track etc... Over the years I worked my way on track to discover the incredible nature of a GT3 - first as a passenger, then borrowed from friends, then "rented" at PEC many times.. Got me thinking... Back in the day, regular joes like me would see the new GT3 come out ($100-150K) and think "OK, in 5-8 years of depreciation", you're mine - maybe if we don't need a new roof - LOL ! These days, used ones are worth more than they were new. New ones are way more $ than ever before, before you even factor in the stupid dealer markup or the dealer relationship game.. So game over. The car is amazing on track but I can't justify those prices.

Anyway nice ST.. Good to know they can make a close ratio box, we only asked them to for like 2 decades !

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Good to know they can make a close ratio box,

The closest I'll get to one is looking at the pictures. But, yup, good to know it's got the fancy gearbox.

[Chocaholic]

Let’s just be thankful that guys like us could sample all things Porsche up until about 10 years ago when prices began to climb from the comfort zone to the unobtanium they are today.

[pwd72s]

Glad I played with P-cars when I did. But I also knew when it was time for me to move on...

[cstreit]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Glad I played with P-cars when I did. But I also knew when it was time for me to move on...

This. Same here and why I’ll have a hard time selling my last one, knowing it will likely be the last one I ever own. They’ve become outrageous. Remember the days of the 12-14k 911SC?

Every generation has its story of the car that they coulda/woulda, the 911 is next.

[porsche tech]

From Random transportation thread:

Originally Posted by porsche tech

“T” for Touring

[KNS]

There was a time when Porsche wanted to see younger generations enjoy their cars at a relatively affordable price. Now it's all about profits. Today their Ferrari business model seems like pure greed.

[porsche tech]

Entry level was 912, 914, 924,912E, 944, etc. now entry level is used Porsche.

[cockerpunk]

there are still fantastic porsches for not that much money, and they are the 996, and the 986.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by cstreit

This. Same here and why I’ll have a hard time selling my last one, knowing it will likely be the last one I ever own. They’ve become outrageous. Remember the days of the 12-14k 911SC?

Every generation has its story of the car that they coulda/woulda, the 911 is next.

When i first started on the Porsche path and was investigating which to buy i visited a PCA autocross at Ripken stadium. Of all the nice cars the one that really grabbed me was a somewhat ratty brown SC that was having the wheels driven off it. Ended up with a '70 but what I won't forget was all the possible joy of Porsche ownership, to me, was distilled into those few seconds I saw that SC run.

I'd say my aspirational P car now would be a 997 era GT3RS but even that is unobtanium for me. In fact at this point, having gotten to briefly experience one i'd say if i had $200k + kind of money for a fun car it wouldn't be a contest. 488 or 430, spares and a trailer for track days.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Let’s just be thankful that guys like us could sample all things Porsche up until about 10 years ago when prices began to climb from the comfort zone to the unobtanium they are today.

That is *exactly* how I feel.. Gotta move on (as PWD72s said). We had a chance to sample the forbidden fruit, and now it's off the menu... It's a strange thing I had not experienced even with other goods, and I can't quite figure out how that happened.. It's almost like someone pulled a plug like 5y ago, +/-..
I guess Porsche figured out they could make more profit (instead of the dealer markup) by selling less and charging more and creating that artificial scarcity - and also sell all the limited editions for $$$.. Prueninger was (fake?)lamenting earlier how only rich folks got an R or a touring, and he wanted those cars to be driven by true enthusiast and have high miles... Ha, then his team released 3x special edition that are selling for 1/2 a mil (speedster 911, this, etc)

I recall early 2010s a friend offering his 997.1 GT3 to me for 70K and I comfortably passed thinking that based on the depreication I'd be afford to do that later on a newer one.. LOL... The part that hurts for me is I drove these cars (the 991.2 GT3 is the one for me) a bit on track and porsche experience sideways, a lot sideways, and got to really realize how effing amazing there are at what they do for us enthusiasts. "Is it best to have loved and lost than never loved at all" - LOL. As to affordable 911s ? Honestly been there done that, the base models and even S are not THAT special for the $ to me, I think BMW does better at that entry level. The GT3s were "special" for the cost back then, but looks they they re-adjusted. Anyway thanks for sharing in the sorrow.. Guess I'm not alone witnessing my income not following GT3 prices, haha !

[Noah930]

Cars like this new 911 model (let alone the plethora of real exotics like Ferraris, Lamborghinis, McLarens, and hypercars) don't even register on my radar anymore. Like that thread from a month or two back on "what private plane/jet would you buy?" They're all in the financially unobtanium level. I don't even dream about stuff like this.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Cars like this new 911 model (let alone the plethora of real exotics like Ferraris, Lamborghinis, McLarens, and hypercars) don't even register on my radar anymore. Like that thread from a month or two back on "what private plane/jet would you buy?" They're all in the financially unobtanium level. I don't even dream about stuff like this.

whats even worse, is that at these prices, even if you could afford them ... you cant use them. they are too valuable. you gonna take a GT3RS to the track eh? you gonna drift your house into a tire wall? really? no. your not going to put your house backwards into a barrier at 110mph? really? no, you are going to putter around at 8/10s and that yahoo in the ****ing jalopy of a car is gonna blow you away.

so they kinda become useless cars. without a purpose to existing at least from a driving perspective.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by berettafan

I'd say my aspirational P car now would be a 997 era GT3RS but even that is unobtanium for me. In fact at this point, having gotten to briefly experience one i'd say if i had $200k + kind of money for a fun car it wouldn't be a contest. 488 or 430, spares and a trailer for track days.

100% with you (extended to 991.2 GT3). Other thing is, maybe I'm stuck in 1995 values, if I had a disposable $200K I'd never buy a car for that, I'd buy a house somewhere or invest.. something more discreet or several cheaper cars. It seems obscene to me to have that amount in a single car, and I'd worry someone would shoot me for it at a traffic light in this day and age of greater social disparities. LOL, it's in my head I guess (clearly, as these cars sell like hotcakes).

[David]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

whats even worse, is that at these prices, even if you could afford them ... you cant use them. they are too valuable. you gonna take a GT3RS to the track eh? you gonna drift your house into a tire wall? really? no. your not going to put your house backwards into a barrier at 110mph? really? no, you are going to putter around at 8/10s and that yahoo in the ****ing jalopy of a car is gonna blow you away.

so they kinda become useless cars. without a purpose to existing at least from a driving perspective.

I know guys that aren't stupid rich that take their GT3RS' to the track. They just have a full car clear wrap and track insurance. Expensive but not unattainable.

I am amused when I think back to all the times I saw a gray haired guy driving a new Porsche and thought that sucks you have to wait til you're old to afford one, but for the vast majority of newer Porsche owners, that's the case. BTW, I'm very gray haired these days

[berettafan]

Well for sure i'd want to be able to enjoy the car without constant worry of some expensive repair or damage. If you can't beat on it you don't own it!

Owning a nice thing (be it car, gun, whatever) is great but the real pleasure is using that nice thing without fear. THAT is when you truly enjoy the thing.

[911 Rod]

I had to wait until my 86 was 15 years old and high mileage before I could afford it.
Maybe because in my youth I always wanted one so I went for it.
Back then I was young and broke. I'm not young anymore.
The new cars do not appeal to me.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

100% with you (extended to 991.2 GT3). Other thing is, maybe I'm stuck in 1995 values, if I had a disposable $200K I'd never buy a car for that, I'd buy a house somewhere or invest.. something more discreet or several cheaper cars. It seems obscene to me to have that amount in a single car, and I'd worry someone would shoot me for it at a traffic light in this day and age of greater social disparities. LOL, it's in my head I guess (clearly, as these cars sell like hotcakes).

Sadly, I'm in that boring middle-aged part of my life where if I had a $200K windfall, I'd put it towards my kids' college educations. Even then, $200K doesn't cover even one kid's schooling anymore. (Though, filling out that FAFSA, I'm made to feel that the more I save, the more it gets held against me and raises my EFC. So maybe I am better off blowing it on a car or vacation vs. prudently saving.)

I have a high school friend classmate who has one of those 991 Speedsters. He's moving from the Bay Area to LA, and he confessed he's having the car shipped to save on the miles. I get it...but I don't.

[sc_rufctr]

Assuming I've got the money to burn and the local dealership can get me a car... Cool for a modern car but do I want to own one?
- That's a Nope.

For a whole bunch of reasons which I'd prefer not to get into here (Past engine issues & how that was handled by Porsche, Country of origin/manufacture of the gearbox etc.)

I'd prefer a Rolls-Royce with twin SU Carburetors that I can tune with me ear and a screwdriver!
- Maybe I'm just getting old?

[pwd72s]

Deschodt touched on another factor...today's crime problem (trying to stay off PARF) enters in as well. These days, you could easily be making yourself a target by dressing well, wearing an expensive watch or jewelry, or driving an expensive car. To each his own, but perhaps it's best to fly under the radar and indulge in your luxuries in a not so visible way.

You don't see them in Jay Leno's videos, but I'm thinking in every street driving episode, there is armed security off camera.