¿Dónde está la playa?

As always, the fact that you are an engineer and can write as well as you do frankly annoys me, Jeff. :cool:

and in the next thread about the garden of gethsemane, if i jump in a declare it all bull crap, then you can say i don't have the necessary life experience to say that.

because you see, this isnt a thread about the garden of gethsemane ... its a thread about burning man.

ergo, life experience with burning man, and events like it, are the relevant life experience needed to comment on the topic. i dont show up in random threads, i have no life experience on, tell everyone its bull crap, and then get mad when someone with more life experience on the topic shows up now do i? i show up in threads i have some kind of relevant life experience about, and if no one else is saying what i would have already said. this is why i tend to stick to racing cars, building racing cars, gay/trans issues, religion, relationships, policing, etc ... because this is where i have a lot of life experience.



there is no shame in lacking life experience at burns or burning man.

there is a problem if you decide to tell 70,000+ people that their experience on the topic, is fake, while you, who has none, have declared yourself and your experience more important on the topic. furthermore, actively attacking people who have that experience who are like "hey, maybe you should listen for a second to people who have actually done the thing you are shooting your mouth off about?"



i have no doubt that your experience with burning man would be exactly how you project it to be. its a rorschach test after all. you see and live how you want to live, and if thats how you see it, then thats what it is for you.

im just not dumb enough to think that every single other person is having the exact same experience. becasue they arnt. just like how multiple people probably have different experiences when it comes to climbing mountains, and going to gardens.

in this thread, i see a lot of people who dont understand a thing, and instead of being curious about it, are attacking it. based on a social media projected image, which is strange, because all of these people hate social media projected images and dont think they are real, but for some reason can't fathom how that might be similarly true of the event in question. so they default to attacking it.

This debate reminds me of listening to a great album on a really nice system at just the right volume as opposed to going to a concert where the group does not play nearly as well, don't have all the studio facilities, even if they wanted to duplicate their final and best mix, and the crowd is so rowdy and noisy that you can't possibly hear the original work.

My point being a bit along Jeff's theme that the gathering takes on a group mentality and much of the nuance is lost on most. I'm sure there are people that get it and are changed by BM. Last concert I went to I think it was less about the art than it was about the event.

Both sides of this discussion have some merit.

I've never been so there's that. I have read about it and I think I can assert that it has changed. Personally IDT the change has been for the best. That seems to be the consensus.

So what are you guys talking about? Last year or 20 years ago? Two different things.

Not good for tent-camping. :D

<iframe width="500" height="560" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DStX0CVTyrw" title="Dodge Ram TRX at Burning Man pulling travel trailer through Mud Bog" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pretty sure that Higgins is not an engineer but he does write well. That said, I'd have to give the nod to CP after his last post...if he has been to a Burning Man and says that it was transformational, who are we to say that he is wrong?

It still doesn't appeal to me but then again, a lot of things that appeal to others do not appeal to me. Over 100k people paid stupid money to see Beyoncé in LA this last week and I wouldn't walk across the street to see her show...not because I think it would suck but I don't like crowds anymore. That said, she will rake in over $1 billion from this tour alone. :eek:

I saw her on the freeway over the weekend, that was good enough for me. :)
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its compounding by the fact that burning man is itself, very very hard to explain to people. people literally write books on the topic. so people have a hard time putting there finger on it, and relating to it, esp if they have no experience with it. i have a lot of experience with burning, and i struggle to put into words what its actually about and what it means to me, and why.

and this is compounded by the fact that burning philosophy is fundamentally about how no two people have the same experience, or meaning from a burn. so even if i could tell you exactly what i think and feel about burning, that would only be my limited experience with it. it would not be a universal experience.

its not a music festival, its not a rave, its not a drug or sex party, its not a mad max simulator, its not about environmentalism, its not a competition etc.

it can have some elements of these things, but its not about maximizing anything.

and there in lies the reason why i love burning. it asks me a question for which i have no real response to ... if there isnt a competition to measure your performance against, if you didnt need to do anything to survive, if you didnt have to go to work everyday .... what would you do? burning man, for me, is a simulator for a freedom that the real world can never present, because in the real world we have to work, we have to do the dishes, we want to see how fast of a driver we are, we want to go head to head into the next braking zone and find out who is better, we want to design a machine that works better, cheaper and more reliability than the competition, we gotta show up on time for our music lessons ... and burning man asks me to put all that aside, and say ... so what? what are you going to do? you don't have to do anything at all. what are you going to do about that? there isnt a puzzle or skill to solve or maximize. there is just choosing how to exist without constraint. what would i wear? what would i do? who would i spend time with? what would we do together? what would we do when we meet someone new? what would we do if presented with a piece of art? an activity? a different piece of art? a different activity? what would happen if we did this thing, or encountered this art or activity in a different mental state? how does this persons encounter with it, differ from my own? why?

now, that is just one person's experience with burning. that is not a universal experience with burning. that is just the value it brings to me.

and so it means a lot of different things, to a lot of different people. its a rorschach test. you see in it what you want to see in it.

if you want to only see a bunch of poser influencers making catchy media content getting ripped on alla the fyre festival ... you absolutely can have that experience. and that is 100% valid and real.

but if you want to, and are willing to see more ... there is so much more. and its not on social media, because its inside you.

I can absolutely get behind CP's description of a "burn". It sounds like something I would love to do.

The topic of this conversation, however, is the debacle we just witnessed unfolding in the Nevada desert. That was absolutely not the "burn" CP describes.

That's the entire point of this discussion - this particular "burn" was not. This particular burn has become a victim of its own success. Far too big, far too commercialized, far too destructive on the environment, enough crime to actually require its own police force, and on and on. This particular burn stands as the very antithesis to the "burn" CP describes.

That is the point of this discussion, not to dismiss or denounce the practice as a whole. I'm sure in smaller settings, faithful to its original roots, a real "burn" is a wonderful thing.

This one was just a laughable, sad parody, ruined by the same folks that ruin everything else of value.

Why are you even here? To argue with people on a forum? Geeez beat dead horses much?
How would you even know if I have participated at a Burning Man event or not, you don't, but whatever.
I get it, it is all about finding one's inner self, looking deep within one's inner self, you'll say, I don't get it at all so, no sense in continuing an exchange with you. I wish you peace. Nameste homes!!! [emoji854]

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thats just like, your opinion man. based on ... well ... nothing.

the folks i know who went, said they had a fantastic time. i can't wait to hear more details, which im sure i will next week.

some rain doesn't make a burn not a burn. some social media darlings or wanna bes showing up doesnt make a burn not a burn. they are welcome just the same as anyone else is.

last year it was covid that effected everyone's burn, this year it was rain. i was at a regional burn where we had a flash flood, tried to wash away half the camp. we cleaned up, and kept going, partied til 4 the next night. we all move forward. even when the weather is 'perfect' at black rock city, its still trying to kill you, actively. its a desert, with nothing, and the dust needs vinegar to be washed off. this isnt the comfort of your own living room. its always physically uncomfortable, one way or another.

if you read my post, i said exactly what i do here.

threads that are about things that i know about and have life experience around, i will comment if i feel like no one else has said what i would say. there is no reason to post if someone has already said what i would have said.

if that makes you unhappy, i dont know what to tell you.

lots of folks were not understanding of what burning man was, and judging the entire thing based on basically not understanding it, and some odd social media images, and then i came in, because i have personal experience with this, and attempting to correct some of these misunderstandings and you got butt hurt about it. thats on you, not on me.

thats what happened here.

Naw dude I am not mad, I am not unhappy, and I am not "butt hurt" as you so eloquently put it, I'm good. Carry on. Peace!

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Here, a balloon from BM landed on my beach a few days ago: It says, "Chris Rock needs your help".

I swear.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1694031483.jpg

Me.

this kind of thing says far more about you, than it does about burning man, or people who attended. it says you think your totally unqualified opinion is worth sharing, and other people reading. and ... its just not. no one cares. but i guess you decided it was better to be seen in your digital forum as bashing hippies than be mistaken for one. :shrug:



all i have said is that a burn is a complex place where a lot of people are all having very different experiences. there are 70k people there, their experience cannot be summed up in a single word, or a single sentence or a single tiktok. a few social media posts by a couple of sparkle ponies who didnt know what they were getting into doesnt have any bearing on the 69,999 people who were there.

and anyone who thinks a single word or phrase can sum these things up ... is a moron. who not only lacks experience at burns, but also lacks basic life experience. as i said, even mountain climbers, and garden visitors take different things away from the experience, only a fool would think that almost any experience can be summed up in a single sentence or word or tikok. never mind something as complex as a burn.



the reason i used the term 'transformational experiences' is actually a well worded shot at sparkle ponies, again, something you might pick up on if you had even a basic understanding of what you are talking about. sparkle pony being another term you'd be familiar with if you were at all familiar with the event.

Some interesting info in this article....

https://news.yahoo.com/burning-man-ending-cleanup-heavy-185941370.html

For burns, use Aloe Vera, takes the sting out. [emoji6]

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For what the organizers make on a singe Burning Man party, they could clean up all of the trash in the state.

From what I gather talking with "Burners" is that Burning Man is akin to a Grateful Dead show or being a Parrot Head at a Jimmy Buffet concert. The band or event is just background music, soundtrack if you will, for the partying, dancing and socializing experience.

When it gets too "corporate" you know it's jumped the shark.

its not. but that hasn't stopped anyone else from pontificating about it.

bro, on one hand you say that in a group of 70k not everone is having the same experience. Good point. Craigster says that a burn is similar to a dead show etc and you immediately dismiss it as incorrect.

Do you see the conflict in your statements?

You are a sparkle pony without the glitter.