Does a degree define being an engineer?

[RNajarian]

Well Bill Nye has an engineering degree yet he is THE Science Guy.

If you are recognized/licensed by the professional organization then you belong. People who graduated law school but do not have a license are not technically lawyers.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The man that drives a train is called the Engineer, and he may not have an college degree at all.

A structural engineer dang well better have a board certified degree to do his job and certify the design of a structure will hold up to the intended purpose.

The acid test for must engineers is personality. If they mostly look at their own shoes when in conversation, they may well be an engineer. If they look at other people's shoes they are an extroverted engineer. If they look you in the eyes, and claim to be an engineer be suspicious.

ROFLMAO!

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

I worked at Boeing as an Degreed BS Electrical Engineer...........I actually have 3 BS degrees, and 2 Associates. All as a sparky.


does that make me smart no.


I've worked with Fellow EE's that could barely describe how a flashlight works.

Probably smarter than the average bear, I'd bet. I'm guessing you've had more than a smattering of math, physics, chemistry, thermodynamics, statistics, circuits, and computer based course work. I'm sure it's possible to skate by, I don't think it's likely that you've got a BSEE if you're not at least a little brighter than a candle.

Originally Posted by id10t

Eh, network bridges maybe ....

Dude! You're showing your age with that one.

speaking of bridges...

[TimT]

[1990C4S]

There are two answers here. One answer from professional (graduate) engineers. And one from 'practicing' engineers.

Where you live, and what rules apply in your jurisdiction are the ultimate arbiter. Where I live your 'friend' is not an engineer. In many states, and in many people's minds, he is an engineer.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by TimT

Its an issue of semantics. You cannot call yourself a Professional Engineer unless you have your states licensing regimens and tests. Then you can use the title "I.m. Engineer. P.E."

You can then sign off on plans and documents giving certain legal cache, and submit them to usually approving agencies... I.E. DOT, Building/Planning Depts, really anyone who requires a P.E. Stamp

The 16 hour exam is broken into the EIT (engineer in traing) and PE sections.. The EIT covers the core, the PE is more core and theory, the second half if the PE is in your specialty (civil, mech, elec.)

EIT is usually taken as a Senior in university.. 5 or so years as an Engineering intern is required before you can sit for the PE exam... Creative application writing helps here...

Lets look at my Uncle... Masters degree in engineering from Cornell, not bad a masters at an Ivy.. He worked for GE in the '60s for the space program... after leaving GE he bounced around finally landing at Sikorsky.. leading a number of projects he could and could not talk about.... I once asked him if he was a licensed engineer, he told me no... because it wasn't worth the trouble in his line of work..

GE... space program... Sikorsky ….whirlybirds secret and not secret..

I think he has a right to call himself an engineer

And my Dad, again a masters in engineering from Cornell...He went to work in the public sector... initially with NYSDOT until he got sick of the malaise which is evident still... He then went to work for Consulting firms which contracted with NYSDOT (Immediately increasing his salary bigly) His path required being a licensed professional engineer....

Given the resumes of both of them... I think both earned being able to tell a date “I'm an Engineer”

BTW I went to SUNY schools.... no Ivy for me

Also you have no ideas of how much design work is done by intern engineers (the ones just breaking into the game) then passed up ,checked and given a once over by the guy who has the stamp...

Another anecdote, my brother, who's licensed in NY,CT,FLA,PA,MASS,ME has never used his stamp.. and he has been in the game for 35 years..

Cool and interesting stuff, thanks for posting.

I started college to be an EE, but it sounded boring. I never talked to anyone about what I should do, and I had no idea what I wanted to do. I think I might have enjoyed getting an ME degree. I didn't finish my degree because I had no motivation "I want to get this degree so I can go be a _____".

I don't regret my path. I consider the college that I did experience (about 60% of a BS) a valuable education. I enjoy what I do. There was no degree when I went to school for the work that I do now. I don't think there were any certifications either. There are certifications for what I do now. I had a few back in the beginning when they were useful to demonstrate my knowledge on the subject or get my resume looked at or put on the top of the pile. All of my certs have expired and my bosses don't care if I go get any. My knowledge, experience, and ability to learn new stuff makes me valuable.

[TimT]

I get a bit of satisfaction, Having been retired close to two years

That colleagues of mine and others in the industry occasionally reach out and ask

"Hey Tim, about this?"

That makes my whole career, all the years all the little nuggets of knowledge that aren't taught, only learned so rewarding..

[Arizona_928]

A degree doesn't define anyone. Especially now in days where affirmative action digs out the weeds and puts them in first in line for professional titles... competency does not equate from a degree.

I see so many incompetent kids graduate with Ph.D.'s that use store bought kits, never synthetized a compound or let alone stepped into a wet lab(computational anything)... this is what we promote...

[porsche930dude]

My fathers job was structual steel detailing. He wasnt an engineer didnt go to school for it or anything. He had to send off the drawings at the end to get them stamped. But he did entire hospitals, malls and shopping centers, dealerships and whatever else they wanted. All on paper he didnt do computer stuff. I dont think anyone could argue that he wasnt an engineer

[Zeke]

Well, now, David, you get into the territory of a 'building engineer' in the sense of running and maintaining the equipment required to power the environment of a large building. That's what they've been called in the sense of a train engineer.

You wouldn't call out a train engineer.

I kinda go with CP and others on this one in that if you are competent enough to design something that receives a patent, you may be a designer, or in some cases, functioning as someone who engineered the item.

To reiterate the question, "Does a degree define being an engineer?" Yes in my thinking, but to sell services to the public seems to be the next hurdle, e.g., becoming licensed by the state in which you work.

I have encouraged my very smart and artistic granddaughter to study design engineering.

[TimT]

My Calc 2 teacher insisted we address him as Dr. Me being the ******* I am would always address him when I asked a question as "professor" and he would always correct me...

I remember first day of class he stated that 75% of us wouldn't make it to the final exam.. he was right.. I failed Calc 2 first go round..

That teacher was an insufferable douchebag.....

Oh and he was a Dr in Philosophy

Oops apologies for the hijack

[Robert Coats]

My late father studied Mechanical Engineering at Auburn. He did poorly, but was determined to graduate. His advisor told him, in general terms, the Chemical Engineering program was 'easier' than Mechanical, so my dad changed majors, and aced his last two years. He got his Professional Engineering stamp/license around 30, and worked mostly in the pulp/paper industry for nearly 50 years, the last 20 as a hired gun. His only professional regret was not going independent earlier.

Rewind to 1978, and as a freshly-graduated high school punk, I too, felt the tug to study engineering. I'd dabbled in electrical, but did not have the grades/SAT to get into a 'pure' engineering school, and opted for the 'engineering technology' track instead. My freshman year, I honestly tried, and did okay with English and History, but the math, drafting, chemistry, etc. totally kicked my butt. After three quarters, and sub-2.0 GPA, it was clear this was not a good choice, and I'd not even taken a single electrical class!t

I ended up switching to Business/Print Media and did just fine. When I think back on that ill-fated freshman year, I am so thankful the system worked as it should. I could not make 'the cut' but if I had manged to squeak by I would have made an absolutely lousy engineer.

So yeah, you can get whatever printed on a business card, but I'm a firm supporter than formally learning theory and the roots of a specific engineering area and actually graduating is critical in many situations. Hell, if nothing else, having a formal degree will open more doors than not.

[astrochex]

My dad was a lifetime electrical engineer, but he did not have an engineering degree.

He designed power connectors for Boeing commercial aircraft engines and held a patent.

[astrochex]

… and to Roberts point, these days, a STEM degree is a mandatory requirement for an engineering position.

[Eric 951]

In my experience there are (2) types of actinal "engineers". Those who operate heavy equipment--following in the train engineer vein--"operating engineers", and those who hold some type of stamp(professional engineer). Regardless of anyone's education, experience, talent, skills, etc. anything less is not a true 'Engineer" You can be the best designer in the world, but if you submit a drawing without a "stamp", it equates to (2) things "jack" and "****". This is not to downplay anyone's abilities or education, but anything less is just not an "Engineer" in the true professional sense.

[dw1]

I believe for someone to call themselves an engineer these days, one needs to have an engineering degree. IMHO.

(Of course, I am not referring to an Operating Engineer - that is an entirely different thing.)

As an R&D engineer & as a senior manager (with over 30 US patents) someone would have to be astoundingly well qualified for me to consider hiring them as an engineer without a degree in that field.

It used to be that in NY state you could get state certification as an architect without a degree, but I believe the rules changed many years ago. I had a university undergraduate classmate who has mentioned several times - including in his new podcast - that his father was a very successful non-degreed architect. Oh yeah, in keeping with the Cornell comments in the prior posts - GO BIG RED!!! That was at Cornell (and the classmate I'm referring to was communications major Keith Olbermann).

LOTS of people call themselves engineers, when in fact they are technicians or CAD designers.

This is not to say that non-degreed engineers don't exist, but in my long professional experience that category has been fading away for many years. In fact, in the later stages of my career, I saw that most of the "fresh out" engineers I hired had masters degrees because it was not all that unusual.

Being a Professional Engineer (i.e. having a PE license) requires a degree, a minimum number of years of professional experience and passing several exams (specifically the EIT "engineer in training" & PE exams). Notably, the PE license is quite valuable in Civil Engineering and related fields, but outside of that - not so much.

Getting an engineering degree is a LOT of work compared to many other undergraduate programs, but it just gives one the "tools". It is the professional experience applying those tools (e.g. being able to tell when a CAE simulation is giving you b.s. because you understand the underlying physics & math) that makes one a well-qualified engineer - knowing not just the "what" but also the "why".

It is not at all uncommon for engineers to work for several years and decide they want to move up the management ladder and get their MBA, or variations of that degree. I also know of others who study for and take the Patent Bar Exam, not to become patent lawyers but to focus on patents and related intellectual property. There are also people with engineering degrees who went into technical sales or (shudder) Marketing. I also know of at least one person who was an undergraduate Biomedical Engineer who went from that to med school.

Fyi, the German example is interesting. It is required to have an masters-level engineering degree to put "Dipl.-Ing." after one's name, although EU agreements is causing that to be often replaced with an "M.Sc." designation. I professionally worked with a lot of German engineers and they take considerable quiet pride in the "Dipl-Ing" (or "Dr.-Ing.", the equivalent of the US Ph.D.) after their names.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by astrochex

My dad was a lifetime electrical engineer, but he did not have an engineering degree.

Neither did my pops but going to a community college studying electrical engineering in 1965/66 at 20 years old he was married, had me & my mom at home, and got a job in Silicon Valley before it was called that. coherent radiation was the name of the company, they were a defense contractor, and his boss was fond of him as the story goes. to the point he signed off on my pops getting a draft exemption for Viet Nam service cause CR was working on laser technology for the government.

Never did get his degree, but in another right place right time he got an engineering job with Atari in like 70/71 in the company's infancy. He brought the proto-type home pong video game in an aluminum box with a couple creepy rubber things as paddle dials and put it on our black and white TV for my 5th birthday party in 71. I remain confident there are at least 5-6 kids in their late 50's who remember that day too.


He dicked around after Atari went in the toilet, but after him being in so early there he really did not have to work with all the Atari stock he unloaded just after the chucky cheese thing crashed.


If you can't tell my pops is my best friend and hero...

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by astrochex

… and to Roberts point, these days, a STEM degree is a mandatory requirement for an engineering position.

Or equivalent experience.

[fanaudical]

I have a degree in mechanical engineering and am licensed as a Professional Engineer in two states. I've held both licenses for over 20 years. The short answer to the original question:

Each state has a different legal definition of what constitutes the practice of "engineering, who may call themselves an "engineer", and how to get to that status. For the state of Florida, I would start to seek understanding here:

https://fbpe.org/legal/statutes-and-rules/

I'm not going to get into the whole debate of who should be allowed to call themselves an "engineer"...

[KFC911]

Wuz Captain Crunch a real captain?

In my professional life ... an EE degree would only land one their first job (mine was in communications R&D at IBM at RTP) where they were common .... in my bleeding/leading high tech career, in real life.... you either had 'IT', or you did not.... and that's what mattered .

I have a Computer Science degree .... I am NOT a scientist either... meh.

I once looked a female in the eyes... soooo... NOT an engineer either ....

Who cares?

[Tim Hancock]

I only have an associates degree in mechanical engineering. For 21 years I designed mainly one off automated machinery for an automated machine design and build company. Over those first 21 years I wore many hats ranging from hands on electrical panel building and machine final assembly/start up/testing to drawing on the boards to machine design using cad. I am named on patents for that company.

For the past 11 years I have worked for a company that designs and builds large stamping line equipment for the automotive industry. Pretty sure all of us in both our mechanical and electrical engineering departments have at least an associate degree with many having bachelors degrees. We are all referred to as "engineers" by our company.

When people ask me what I do for a living I tell them I am a mechanical engineer that designs machinery. Never really thought about whether that description is "proper", but it seems sufficient to convey what I do for a living all these years. I guess I don't really care all that much about the whole questioning of the title or college degree type at this stage of my life.