Does a degree define being an engineer?

[GH85Carrera]

The man that drives a train is called the Engineer, and he may not have an college degree at all.

A structural engineer dang well better have a board certified degree to do his job and certify the design of a structure will hold up to the intended purpose.

The acid test for must engineers is personality. If they mostly look at their own shoes when in conversation, they may well be an engineer. If they look at other people's shoes they are an extroverted engineer. If they look you in the eyes, and claim to be an engineer be suspicious.

[911 Rod]

My father was an electrical engineer and all he had was a certificate that he received after doing it for a number of years. He was a licenced electrician though.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

I don't disagree...entirely. Again it comes down to how you describe engineering. The man I mentioned doesn't plan or design programs he writes the code according to the project goal.

If I build something following the plan that someone else designed, am I the engineer, or are they?

By what you wrote above "performing the action of an engineer" do you mean to include designing a build or just doing the fabrication?

people who write code more than certainly are or can be engineers.

engineering
[ en-juh-neer-ing ]SHOW IPA

noun
1. the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences, as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines, bridges, buildings, mines, ships, and chemical plants.

2. the action, work, or profession of an engineer.


engineering is the art and science of making things real. if you perform this art *and* science, then you are an engineer.

[Deschodt]

I studied business.. Been a software engineer for 25y though, nobody fired me yet, must be doing the job more or less right ;-) We design and build things, end to end, I guess that counts.

I do agree that would not be cool for engineering bridges though ;-)

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

people who write code more than certainly are or can be engineers.

engineering
[ en-juh-neer-ing ]SHOW IPA

noun
1. the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences, as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines, bridges, buildings, mines, ships, and chemical plants.

2. the action, work, or profession of an engineer.


engineering is the art and science of making things real. if you perform this art *and* science, then you are an engineer.

I developed software, but I would never call myself a software engineer. My major was in business. Ironically, I do call myself an artist. Yet I lack any study or training in art.
So there ya go!

[Rusty Heap]

I worked at Boeing as an Degreed BS Electrical Engineer...........I actually have 3 BS degrees, and 2 Associates. All as a sparky.


does that make me smart no.


I've worked with Fellow EE's that could barely describe how a flashlight works.

[id10t]

Only engineer type without a degree (and professional cert body/org behind it) would be a software or systems engineer... Which is usually a title.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

I studied business.. Been a software engineer for 25y though, nobody fired me yet, must be doing the job more or less right ;-) We design and build things, end to end, I guess that counts.

I do agree that would not be cool for engineering bridges though ;-)

Eh, network bridges maybe ....

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

Soliciting y'all's input to see if my bias is showing.

At what point does a degree define your trade? Obviously to be a doctor you need a medical degree, but what about an engineer, or an architect?

Im asking because this guy was telling me he's an engineer, but he doesn't have an engineering degree. My first thought was he's engaging in puffery, but later I got to thinking. Maybe I'm being unfair?

How did he do on the rest of the dating application?

[aschen]

Again I have zero snobbery about this sort of thing, but I have worked with many very skilled engineering techs over the years. Sometimes there is a bit of engineers vs technician friction which is normal and natural and some times hilarious.

I will say that sometimes even in the most skilled techs some lack of fundamental basis will show up from time to time, I am sure it is more common for us engineers to show lack of pragmatism though.

An engineer not knowing how to use a ratchet is more egregious than a tech not grasping the second law of thermodynamics

[rwest]

Here in MN, I have a license to operate heating boilers and my card from the State calls me an Engineer. I took a test, had a few years of experience working around boilers and paid the fee.

So technically I’m an Engineer according to the government, but am I really an engineer? Nope!

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

How did he do on the rest of the dating application?

Well played. I'm lol-ing for real.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Capt. Carrera

Im asking because this guy was telling me he's an engineer, but he doesn't have an engineering degree. My first thought was he's engaging in puffery, but later I got to thinking. Maybe I'm being unfair?

Depends upon the type of engineer. I'm a network engineer. I do complex technical stuff. There's no PE test for that like there would be for an EE, CE, ME, etc...

Originally Posted by Alan A

Is he a licensed PE? Or the equivalent of whatever that is in the state in question? If not, no, IMO.

I have an engineering degree. And sufficient experience that if I were to take and pass the exams I'd be qualified as same.

But I don't call myself an engineer - that would be false advertising imo.

For a lot of the more traditional sorts of engineers, this is a good answer.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

if you are employed as an engineer, you are an engineer IMO.

This seems to me to be another good answer. If you're being paid to be an engineer... Of course, then you get into the problem of folks that actually impersonate various professions without being remotely qualified (and can't do the work).

[TimT]

Its an issue of semantics. You cannot call yourself a Professional Engineer unless you have your states licensing regimens and tests. Then you can use the title "I.m. Engineer. P.E."

You can then sign off on plans and documents giving certain legal cache, and submit them to usually approving agencies... I.E. DOT, Building/Planning Depts, really anyone who requires a P.E. Stamp

In New York:

“ licensed New York PE has earned a minimum of 12 years of education/experience credit and has passed a 16-hour national licensing examination. Most New York PEs have a four-year bachelor's degree from an accredited engineering program and have earned qualifying experience as an intern engineer. “

NYS PE Info

The 16 hour exam is broken into the EIT (engineer in traing) and PE sections.. The EIT covers the core, the PE is more core and theory, the second half if the PE is in your specialty (civil, mech, elec.)

EIT is usually taken as a Senior in university.. 5 or so years as an Engineering intern is required before you can sit for the PE exam... Creative application writing helps here...

Lets look at my Uncle... Masters degree in engineering from Cornell, not bad a masters at an Ivy.. He worked for GE in the '60s for the space program... after leaving GE he bounced around finally landing at Sikorsky.. leading a number of projects he could and could not talk about.... I once asked him if he was a licensed engineer, he told me no... because it wasn't worth the trouble in his line of work..

GE... space program... Sikorsky ….whirlybirds secret and not secret..

I think he has a right to call himself an engineer

And my Dad, again a masters in engineering from Cornell...He went to work in the public sector... initially with NYSDOT until he got sick of the malaise which is evident still... He then went to work for Consulting firms which contracted with NYSDOT (Immediately increasing his salary bigly) His path required being a licensed professional engineer....

Given the resumes of both of them... I think both earned being able to tell a date “I'm an Engineer”

BTW I went to SUNY schools.... no Ivy for me

[TimT]

Also you have no ideas of how much design work is done by intern engineers (the ones just breaking into the game) then passed up ,checked and given a once over by the guy who has the stamp...

Another anecdote, my brother, who's licensed in NY,CT,FLA,PA,MASS,ME has never used his stamp.. and he has been in the game for 35 years..

[jcommin]

I have a BSME from the U of I in 1973. I have been in manufacturing for 50 years and I'm retired as of this year.

For the first 7 years, I started out on a drafting board as a jr designer, later promoted to designer and senior designer.

The next 7 years, I changed jobs, and my title was design engineer and later senior design engineer.

I had a consulting gig for one year, and for the remaining 35 years I have been with the manufacturing company. My duties and titles have changed. If you ask me what I am today, I will tell you I'm a degreed mechanical engineer by education, but I'm so far removed from engineering, I can't call myself that today.

IMO, the title of engineer is thrown around, anyone can call themselves that. I have respect for those who are PEs, certified, and those who have Masters and Doctorates.

[cockerpunk]

yup, outside of civil/environmental, there really isnt much purpose to getting your PE.

i do fundamental research and development on machining metal ... im not a PE. but im an engineer.

[911/914gary]

During college while working for the state air resources board, I passed my EIT test. I was given the title of “environmental engineer” before I got my degree. After graduation I got a job with the skunk works as a “hydro-mechanical engineer.” When I asked if they would sponsor me to for a PE license. It wasn’t important in aerospace back then. They prefer years experience within the engineering discipline or a MS degree. With that went clout and you moved up in pay grades. When I went to McDonnell Douglas on commercial planes most of us had MS or MBA degrees. However years of experience or having design authority by means of FAA certification was more important. We all worked under some department sign that stated mechanical, structures, avionics,…”engineering.” So I believe I am an “engineer”. (Retired now).

With that said I worked with several people who earned many patents that didn’t have an engineering degree. They were well respected brilliant self-taught “engineers.” I on the other hand have a degree in Hydro-mechanical engineering with a minor in physics. But I am no physicist.

[TimT]

There is this sort of famous guy...Who was awarded an Engineering title

While working in Vienna, he enrolled as a part-time student at what is now the Vienna University of Technology, and went there whenever he could after work. Besides attending classes there, Porsche did not complete any formal engineering education.

Ferdinand Porsche

Porsche had advanced to managing director by 1916 and received an honorary doctorate from the Vienna University of Technology in 1916: the title "Dr. Ing. h.c." is an abbreviation of "Doktor Ingenieur Honoris Causa".[16]

[David]

Here's what the state of Texas says about it:

Graduates of all public universities recognized by the American Association of Colleges and Universities who have a degree from an ABET engineering program have the right to disclose any college degrees received and use the title "Graduate Engineer" on stationery, business cards, and personal communications of any character. A graduate engineer who is employed by a registered firm and who is supervised by a licensed professional engineer may use the term "engineer". Refer to the Texas Engineering Practice Act, Section 1001.406.

But it's pretty rare for a non-licensed engineer to get in trouble for claiming to be an engineer especially if they're degreed.

I have seen some building maintenance guys with engineer in their title and I really wanted to call them out on it since they're not degreed, licensed, or even know what engineers really do. But I try really hard to not be a *****.

For the record, I passed the test so I get to say I'm an engineer