Anybody lose a window?

[pmax]

[Captain Ahab Jr]

[oldE]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Right?

Apparently the reference to bolts not properly torqued may refer to the 4 bolts which hold the piece which fits over the hinge post to the door plug itself. Two of the bolts can be seen in the post above.
If such a fault is being found on multiple aircraft in service with different airlines, it would seem the fault is with assembly.

Best
Les

[KNS]

Aircraft burn significantly more fuel at lower altitudes than at higher altitudes (30,000+ feet). Alaska prohibited flights over water due to the distance to an emergency landing, of course.

Had the plane been enroute to Hawaii and the door blown off mid way across the ocean they would have had to drop to low levels (below 12,000 ft at least) due to the lack of oxygen for the passengers. Combined with the additional drag created by the missing door there would have been an excellent chance of the plane running out of fuel over the ocean.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

One pelican is conspicuously absent in this thread… I’m sure he has an interesting perspective to share on this situation that I would love to hear.

I think he was chastised recently for a 'grumpy' post....maybe he as thin skin.

Steve should apologize.

[Dpmulvan]

A decent explanation, looks like the head of our FAA isn’t a pilot but does have her motorcycle endorsement.

[Dpmulvan]

Trumps Head Of FAA

Dickson was born in Lake Charles, Louisiana. A former United States Air Force Officer and F-15 fighter pilot, Dickson is a Distinguished Graduate of the Class of 1979 at the United States Air Force Academy, as well as a graduate of the Georgia State University College of Law, magna cum laude.[4]

Career
Before moving to the Federal Aviation Administration, Stephen Dickson retired from service as the Senior Vice President-Flight Operations for Delta Air Lines. In this role, he was responsible for the safety and operational performance of Delta's global flight operations, as well as pilot training, crew resources, crew scheduling, and regulatory compliance. He also flew in line operations as an Airbus A320 captain, and previously flew the Boeing 727, 737, 757, and 767 during his career.

BIDENS Head of FAA: Bachelor’s from university of Pennsylvania, Has motorcycle endorsement on her license and is a four year student pilot. Must be a friend of Jill’s or something.

[edgemar]

Originally Posted by dpmulvan

a decent explanation, looks like the head of our faa isn’t a pilot but does have her motorcycle endorsement.

ntsb

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I think he was chastised recently for a 'grumpy' post....maybe he as thin skin.

Steve should apologize.

I don't remember...which thread was it?

[911 Rod]

Originally Posted by stevej37

I don't remember...which thread was it?

The small death bus?

[stevej37]

^^^ I'm lost...
no idea where you mean.

[1990C4S]

I nearly died reading that thread!

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1153299-1st-time-living-off-grid-mountains-during-winter-almost-died-lol.html

[stevej37]

^^^ first time I've read that thread....it's not me.

[KNS]

It gets worse.

https://jacobin.com/2024/01/alaska-airlines-boeing-parts-malfunction-workers-spirit-aerosystems

One of the employees at Spirit AeroSystems, which reportedly manufactured the door plug that blew out of an Alaska Airlines flight over Portland, Oregon, allegedly told company officials about an “excessive amount of defects,” according to the federal complaint and corresponding internal corporate documents reviewed by us.

According to the court documents, the employee told a colleague that “he believed it was just a matter of time until a major defect escaped to a customer.”

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Unfortunately SPIRIT is owned by some Wall Street group that has been selling off assets and driving the rest of the company into the ground with cost savings.
Boeing long ago lost their span of control over their supply chain due to their own downsizing, now is the impact.
737 Planes made of metal are relics of the past being leveraged for every dime possible thru 10 design iterations.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Unfortunately SPIRIT is owned by some Wall Street group that has been selling off assets and driving the rest of the company into the ground with cost savings.
Boeing long ago lost their span of control over their supply chain due to their own downsizing, now is the impact.
737 Planes made of metal are relics of the past being leveraged for every dime possible thru 10 design iterations.

I worked for a non profit that was a niche contractor to Boeing for small parts. We were considered part of their in house capability. I remember being at a contractor meeting at Boeing around 2008/9 time frame. The execs there were bemoaning their outsourcing strategy, which included them selling off a lot of their in house capabilities in areas like composites.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2013/01/21/what-went-wrong-at-boeing/?sh=5a628ea7b1b7

[Jeff Higgins]

This is no longer the company I worked for for 35 years. When I first started (to use a familiar adage on a Porsche forum) "Excellence Was Expected". Cost was no object. "Take the time to do it right the first time." The company was managed by engineers who had ascended through the ranks into leadership roles. They "knew the language". Profits hovered around 2-3%, but it was enough to keep the lights on while we played in the best ever playground for engineers.

Then, somewhere along the line, "shareholder value" (what the hell is that? we all asked) took over. We were competing with the quarterly profits and ups and downs of the very volatile up and coming tech industry for investor interest. Financial timelines that were measured in decades got reduced to quarters. We simply could not compete if we continued to follow "the old ways".

So things changed. Long term development of new products became a thing of the past. In an industry that really does represent the cutting edge of human ability, we were reduced to competing with other very low level, quickly developed and discarded consumer products to attract investor dollars. This took over the company and drove every decision going forward.

As if that was not bad enough, we suffered the affects of the death of meritocracy. We went from a company that only saw engineering excellence to a company that "values diversity". Engineers were being put into positions and given responsibilities for which they were woefully under qualified. Prior to "release" - approval of a design for manufacturing - we have traditionally checked and reviewed one another's work. This is a back and forth process, wherein a junior engineer submits their work for a formal "check" process to a senior engineer.

Well, what happens when a senior engineer finds such work to be unacceptable? In the old days, it was returned to the junior engineer for rework. If the junior engineer objected, that junior engineer had to make their case to the group's manager. A manager who had come up through the ranks as an engineer, and "knew the language".

That's all "out the window" (pardon the pun). The manager of today was never an engineer - they are "managing people, not processes", and are mostly chosen on the basis of diversity requirements rather than engineering knowledge. They don't "know the language". The junior engineer is of one of the many "protected classes", and cries to that manager claiming some form of "racism" or other mistreatment. And the substandard design gets pushed through, because it satisfies both the new bean counters and the "equity" requirements foisted upon the senior engineers.

That's why a boatload (planeload) of us retired when we did. We no longer recognize our old company. Engineering excellence has been replaced by profitability at the corporate level, and DEI down in the "trenches". Two really, really bad ways to fly...

That is, of course, only my woefully uninformed opinion. You would have to ask an industry expert like kach22i for an real expert's opinion.

[A930Rocket]

From the inter-web:

IAW NTSB report what cause de door plug separation on Alaska airlines 1282:
The door translated upward direction and disconnected from all 12 door stops which resulted in the upper guide fitting to fracture

[unclebilly]

Jeff, thank you for weighing in.

[Flatbutt1]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

This is no longer the company I worked for for 35 years. When I first started (to use a familiar adage on a Porsche forum) "Excellence Was Expected". Cost was no object. "Take the time to do it right the first time." The company was managed by engineers who had ascended through the ranks into leadership roles. They "knew the language". Profits hovered around 2-3%, but it was enough to keep the lights on while we played in the best ever playground for engineers.

Then, somewhere along the line, "shareholder value" (what the hell is that? we all asked) took over. We were competing with the quarterly profits and ups and downs of the very volatile up and coming tech industry for investor interest. Financial timelines that were measured in decades got reduced to quarters. We simply could not compete if we continued to follow "the old ways".

So things changed. Long term development of new products became a thing of the past. In an industry that really does represent the cutting edge of human ability, we were reduced to competing with other very low level, quickly developed and discarded consumer products to attract investor dollars. This took over the company and drove every decision going forward.

As if that was not bad enough, we suffered the affects of the death of meritocracy. We went from a company that only saw engineering excellence to a company that "values diversity". Engineers were being put into positions and given responsibilities for which they were woefully under qualified. Prior to "release" - approval of a design for manufacturing - we have traditionally checked and reviewed one another's work. This is a back and forth process, wherein a junior engineer submits their work for a formal "check" process to a senior engineer.

Well, what happens when a senior engineer finds such work to be unacceptable? In the old days, it was returned to the junior engineer for rework. If the junior engineer objected, that junior engineer had to make their case to the group's manager. A manager who had come up through the ranks as an engineer, and "knew the language".

That's all "out the window" (pardon the pun). The manager of today was never an engineer - they are "managing people, not processes", and are mostly chosen on the basis of diversity requirements rather than engineering knowledge. They don't "know the language". The junior engineer is of one of the many "protected classes", and cries to that manager claiming some form of "racism" or other mistreatment. And the substandard design gets pushed through, because it satisfies both the new bean counters and the "equity" requirements foisted upon the senior engineers.

That's why a boatload (planeload) of us retired when we did. We no longer recognize our old company. Engineering excellence has been replaced by profitability at the corporate level, and DEI down in the "trenches". Two really, really bad ways to fly...

That is, of course, only my woefully uninformed opinion. You would have to ask an industry expert like kach22i for an real expert's opinion.

This can describe what happened in the Rx industry as well. Before I retired our new managers and directors were coming in with PhDs in anything but science. The thought being that any PhD was valuable. Then our CEO retired and was replaced with someone who came over from a cosmetics company! You probably won't be surprised to hear that the division I worked for no longer exists.