Generator / battery for power outage - questions

[jyl]

This has become topical here in Portland, where lots of people are on their fifth day without electricity and with frozen pipes.

Are folks using generators or batteries for emergency power? What kind, fuel (if applicable), size?

[Arizona_928]

5 days is a lot on a genie. Better change some oil and hope they’re on natural gas.

Either freeze. Start a fire. Or leave.

[Robert Coats]

Originally Posted by jyl

Are folks using generators or batteries for emergency power? What kind, fuel (if applicable), size?

I have a 3kw Yamaha inverter generator (gasoline) I've used for extended outage periods. It has more than enough to run a full-size fridge, smaller freezer, natural-gas fired furnace blower, and and 1/2 dozen small electronics. I keep the generator outside (of course) and have a long heavy-duty extension cord plugged into the 30A receptacle. It feeds four, 20A receptacles at the other end, and I've run smaller cords from there, no problems.

A 3kw set will not run a central A/C system, FYI. If I lost power here in Atlanta during a heatwave, I'd likely go find a hotel. I've thought about getting a 9,000 BTU or smaller window A/C system for the master bedroom, as I think the gen could run that.

[Baz]

This is the one I bought and it works fantastic! Usually only needed when hurricanes come through. That didn't happen this year, thankfully!

RAINIER R4400DF Dual Fuel (Gas and Propane) Portable Generator with Electric Start - 4400 Peak Watts & 3600 Rated Watts - CARB Compliant

Past threads on the subject that might be helpful:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1143386-whole-house-generator-pricing.html

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1117255-whole-house-generators.html

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1131852-portable-generator-txnfr-switch.html

[wdfifteen]

I have a 19kw Generac on natural gas. I had it installed before solar and batteries became affordable. I have since installed solar panels and would have added batteries if I hadn’t had the generator. I got caught in between the change in technologies. I have $30k in solar panels and a generator and wish I had that in solar and batteries.

[id10t]

Other corner of the country, but we've lost power for 7-10 days due to hurricanes.

Generator doesn't need to run 24/7 - we run ours a few hours at a shot to keep fridge cold and blow fans, etc.

Turn on generator, open fridge for food/drinks/etc, close fridge, run generator for 2 or so hours to chill everything back down, turn off generator. Not enough genny to run well pump or ac or anything big like that (5500/7500 peak) but toilet flushing is easy with a water source (rain collection, neighbors pool)

Dealing with extreme cold AND no power gets a lot trickier, unless you have a fireplace and a stock of wood.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by jyl

This has become topical here in Portland, where lots of people are on their fifth day without electricity and with frozen pipes.

Are folks using generators or batteries for emergency power? What kind, fuel (if applicable), size?

What kind of heat? I have a 17kw propane generator-it'll run a small heat pump that does our master suite. The main house is on a heat pump/propane furnace-it'll heat fine on the generator, but not cool. We have about 70% of our circuits available on gennie. Oven is not one of those, but we have gas cooktop so we can eat. If you have gas or oil heat, you just need minimal power to run igniters and fan.

We've had power outages as long as 7 days with no issue. This generator is an aircooled model, and is reaching the end of its useful life (installed in 2007). If it runs for more than a couple days I change the oil-its only like 2 qts.

Last house had a 25k liquid cooled installed by PO. More maintenance, but powered everything. When my current setup goes, looking to go to around 20kw and soft starts for the a/c .

[Paul_Heery]

My sister has a Powerwall+ along with solar panels on her roof. She also has gas heat, so that limits her reliance on electricity somewhat. So far, their area has only had a electric utility outage of about 2 days. But, the system worked perfectly for her. But, she did refrain from running the dishwasher, wash and dryer during the outage.

[Halm]

Originally Posted by Robert Coats

. . . I keep the generator outside (of course) and have a long heavy-duty extension cord plugged into the 30A receptacle. It feeds four, 20A receptacles at the other end, and I've run smaller cords from there, no problems.

How are you preventing back feed into the main grid? Is the 30A receptacle on a point to point circuit?

[GH85Carrera]

My dad's next door neighbors were just renters, and they did not pay their electric bill, and the power company of course cut them off. They bought a Honda generator that ran, making racket on their back porch for months on end. Dad was really happy when they were evicted by the sheriff's department for non payment of rent.

I was impressed that that generator could run that long. And of course buying gasoline was way more expensive than the electric company.

[rfuerst911sc]

We have a 20kw Kohler generator that runs on propane . We have a 500 gallon tank . Since the install last year the longest power outage was about 3 hours . We have a heat pump dual fuel furnace/AC along with a well pump .

The 20kw easily handles everything . We use common sense ( remember that ? ) to not run the electric oven and dryer at the same time . If we thought power would be out for a week we would turn the generator off/on to conserve fuel .

As backup we have a Honda 3000kw inverter generator that runs on gas . I generally have 5-7 gallons of gas on hand for lawn equipment . The Honda easily handles the refrigerator and freezer so food won't spoil . And various lamps and to charge our phones . The Honda is very fuel efficient and whisper quiet .

[jyl]

Has anyone heard of a battery as "surge capacity" for a generator? Idea being that generator handles the base load, while battery kicks in for momentary high loads and charge is maintained by generator. Seems would allow a smaller, more fuel-efficient generator. Akin to a hybrid car.

I figure that the average sized house with gas appliances + heating requires under 3,000 watts almost all the time (assuming sensible occupants not running AC, electric dryers, etc during power outages), but when multiple motors start at the same time that someone is using the microwave, power consumption can jump to >10,000 watts for short periods. Would be cool to handle that with a smallish generator (say 5,000 watt) instead of a >15kW generator.

[jyl]

Also, can you read the labels on furnaces, refrigerators, water heaters, etc to figure out starting power, or is there a good rule of thumb that if rated power is X, starting power is Y?

I'm interested in the soft-start devices but am trying to figure out which devices they should be used for.

[Arizona_928]

I have a light tower genie (Kubota 1105 diesel engine) that will get 0.25 gal per hour at around 1500 watt hour. 56 gallon tank = 9 days of nonstop run time.

Very efficient for a genie.

[Robert Coats]

Originally Posted by Halm

How are you preventing back feed into the main grid? Is the 30A receptacle on a point to point circuit?

The 30A receptacle is on the generator. All the devices I power are unplugged from the house receptacles and connect to the 30A on the generator via a few extension cords and power strips. No power is ever fed back into the house wiring. I've thought about fitting a transfer switch, but as we might lose power for +/- 12-14 hours for the whole year, just couldn't justify the cost.

[908/930]

I use a small 2300w inverter generator, purchased two of them for my site power for building this house, at least one ran almost every day for 8hrs for 1 1/2 years, they still run well. I can run a furnace and fridge or freezer no problem. We don't usually get long power outages so not too worried about running everything at once. My backup cooktop is portable induction.

EDIT, My furnaces run ECM blower motors so low wattage especially at startup compared to reg AC blower.

[Seahawk]

I have to run generators when the power goes out because I have a F****** basement and sump pumps.

Never again.

For me, I have two 2300W Honda gens that I can use in tandem, and a third gen with electric start for the house...which plugs into the house and I had a professional install the panel for moving between grid and gen power so no one gets hurt.

Redundancy is life for a farm, especially with, unfortunately, horses.

Heat is all wood stove provided and I have more wood than Ron J.

BTW, I looked at other alternatives but I'd have to bury a propane tank for an automatic stand-by. Serious scooters.

[brp914]

I have solar/battery. I'm connected to the grid but mostly don't need it unless it rains. Battery is essential loads only (fridge, some lights, and electronics). If >1 day of rain then grid. If > 1 day rain and no grid then SOL. Charge battery in the AM. Sell power in the PM. Consume battery overnite. But it's kind of like camping. You think about when and how much power you use. I should get a UPS for the tankless heater. One cold shower should be sufficient motivation.

The system will not fully pay for itself over time but I won't be queued up with the crazies at the gas station filling their cans if "the big one" hits. Power goes out several times per year, from minutes to hours. It's so nice to have the lights stay on. Switchover is auto and instant.

[LWJ]

JYL,

If you can post your research results, I am all ears! I have decided that the little 2000W inverter generator I borrowed / bought just isn't big enough to run my furnace.

The irony? I have 16 solar panels on my roof. But NO battery system. Mine goes straight to the grid.

It was 39F in my home the other morning before power came back. BRRRR.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by jyl

Also, can you read the labels on furnaces, refrigerators, water heaters, etc to figure out starting power, or is there a good rule of thumb that if rated power is X, starting power is Y?

I'm interested in the soft-start devices but am trying to figure out which devices they should be used for.

Anything with a high full load amp (FLA) rating.

A soft starter is a solid-state system or device that protects AC electric motors from damage caused by sudden influxes of power by limiting the large initial inrush of current associated with motor startup.

They provide a gentle ramp up to full speed and are used only at startup (and stop, if equipped). Ramping up the initial voltage to the motor produces this gradual start.

Soft starters are also known as reduced voltage soft starters (RVSS).

Reduces voltage drop normally associated with motor starting.