Would you race against a 14 year old?

[unclebilly]

It feels like I'm getting some push back for trying to get my son, who will be 14 in June, and consequently eligible for a SCCA full Comp license (once he completes an advanced racing school). He has been racing karts since he was 5 so is not a 'nube' in any way. I think he's a better driver than I am.

In Canada, they won't issue him a WCMA license until he is 15 however they will let anyone with an SCCA license race regardless of age.

Personally, I'd rather be on the track against a younger body with faster reflexes that came up with this than some guy in his 40s or 50s that just started racing in his middle ages, but that's me.

It feels like this is another example of how old men are ruining motorsports... we have enthusiastic, and capable, kids who want to race - why hold them back?

Where do you stand on this? Maybe I should have posted this in the racing forum...

[911 Rod]

This has come up before and the main concerns are is he financially liable for the car?
Does he really get the difference between SIM racing and real racing?
Very capable at that age, but maturity counts for a lot when it comes to being responsible.

[unclebilly]

He has done very little SIM racing. He's been racing wheel to wheel in karts for 9 years. Where did SIM racing come from?

[911 Rod]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

He has done very little SIM racing. He's been racing wheel to wheel in karts for 9 years. Where did SIM racing come from?

I mention SIM from previous discussions about starting young.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not being negative about this.

[908/930]

I would rather not, mostly because of lack of responsibility of many 14yo. NOT saying that your son is irresponsible but at that age many are. Years ago I was racing sailboats and one of the skippers let some JR sailers about 15yo race his boat while he was away, just reckless idiots, 6000lb boats. One race they entered the start line on port tack with no rights in fairly high wind and were T boned. Fortunately nobody seriously hurt and about $20k damage to the boat.

Hmmm, the skipper that owned that boat sunk a 8 metre race boat with one that he charted last year, he was on port also, so he was really no better. Edit, looks like they raised that boat from 150ft of water and are rebuilding.

[Eric Hahl]

I see no problem with racing youngsters. I raced a national motorcycle race against Ben Spies when he was 14 or 15 and I was 30. There were probably 40-50 bikes in the class. Ben won and went on to be AMA multi time champion and then on to MotoGP.

[masraum]

I don't see a problem with it assuming there's a verifiable record of experience.

The only possible issue that I see is related to the statement below.

Originally Posted by unclebilly

He has done very little SIM racing. He's been racing wheel to wheel in karts for 9 years. Where did SIM racing come from?

Nothing specific to your son. I suspect the argument is that kids don't necessarily understand consequences (whether that be the cost of replacing their/your car several people having to replace their cars or worse yet, themselves or multiple people being injured). A kid could drive like they are in a video game because of that, but in real life, there's no reset button or extra life like there is in a video game

I don't think his comment was about your boy specifically, but was about the potential for "some/any kid" to cause problems because of a lack of experience and/or understanding of the possible consequences.

It sounds like your boy has 5 years of experience behind the wheel with most of those probably being wheel to wheel racing. He's probably fine.

[pwd72s]

I suppose the real question is should 14 year olds be allowed to race? With proper training, I can't see why not.

[masraum]

I think I've heard/read that most of the top racers started in karts at very young ages and worked their way up.

[Dantilla]

I would have no problem being on track with a 14 year old.
If he drove well, meaning didn't make any serious mistakes, I would find him in the pits afterward and compliment him.

If he made some minor goofs, as I did when a rookie, I would want to give him very encouraging tips/suggestions.

If he caused major mayhem, ignore everything above. I would say nothing.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by masraum

I don't see a problem with it assuming there's a verifiable record of experience.

It sounds like your boy has 5 years of experience behind the wheel with most of those probably being wheel to wheel racing. He's probably fine.

13 - 5 = 8… he has over 8 years experience. All wheel to wheel racing where you don’t have a roll cage or even door bars between you and the other drivers.

He has flipped his kart once at about 30 MPH and been in a bad wreck that bent one of his karts badly at one point (a girl took him out). He fully understands consequences of his and other drivers actions on track.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

... I would find him in the pits afterward and compliment him.

Originally Posted by unclebilly

13 - 5 = 8… he has over 8 years experience. All wheel to wheel racing where you don’t have a roll cage or even door bars between you and the other drivers.

Sounds like I would find him in the pits and ask him for driving tips!

[masraum]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

13 - 5 = 8… he has over 8 years experience. All wheel to wheel racing where you don’t have a roll cage or even door bars between you and the other drivers.

He has flipped his kart once at about 30 MPH and been in a bad wreck that bent one of his karts badly at one point (a girl took him out). He fully understands consequences of his and other drivers actions on track.

Sorry, I thought you said he'd been racing since he was 8. Brain fart, I must have gotten something mixed up in my head. I was splitting my attention between work and PPOT.

Like I said, not about your little guy specifically. The problem is that not all young people "get it". But with that much experience, he probably gets it much better than most.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I wouldn't have a problem with it although how much experience does he have in 2,000 + pound cars with no drivers license? Is he able to do club track days at his age? I don't remember ever seeing someone that young when I was doing DE's. I get he has great racecraft from karting, but the type of ride does make a difference. I've retired from racing, but going from open wheel FV to my 911 track car or my 914 GT tribute felt very different.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by masraum

I think I've heard/read that most of the top racers started in karts at very young ages and worked their way up.

That be true.

[rrental]

No i won't have a problem racing youngsters besides them beating me.....Was racing with a 14 year old in a SCCA event at Podium Club in Arizona last month in a Rush SR, and a 15 year old boy who came from the midgets. The 14 year old girl is a karter and was competing for a podium in her first race.

Young karters are grossly underestimated by many racers and governing bodies. Just go to a SKUSA event, especially Supernats in Vegas in November and many will be surprised of the quality of the (young) drivers

On another note, CACC here in BC and WMCA will not allow a Canadian to run road races in Canada without a Canadian license under ASN regulations. I have seen Canadian drivers with a Conference and SCCA license been told not to come. Absolutely ridiculous. I am very active in the karting community here in BC and have been dealing with this issue a few times.

[ErVikingo]

As a racer my answer is "it depends".

I have raced against 13-16 year old very mature drivers. Aware and respectful. I have also raced against adults that had none of the maturity of these young drivers.

With all those years of experience under his belt I would love to share the track with your son.

You can judge maturity with a couple of direct questions regarding hypothetical situations.

You can't win a race if you don't make it to the chequered flag

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by rrental

No i won't have a problem racing youngsters besides them beating me.....Was racing with a 14 year old in a SCCA event at Podium Club in Arizona last month in a Rush SR, and a 15 year old boy who came from the midgets. The 14 year old girl is a karter and was competing for a podium in her first race.

Young karters are grossly underestimated by many racers and governing bodies. Just go to a SKUSA event, especially Supernats in Vegas in November and many will be surprised of the quality of the (young) drivers

On another note, CACC here in BC and WMCA will not allow a Canadian to run road races in Canada without a Canadian license under ASN regulations. I have seen Canadian drivers with a Conference and SCCA license been told not to come. Absolutely ridiculous. I am very active in the karting community here in BC and have been dealing with this issue a few times.

Well there is no requirement to prove nationality. No requirement to bring a passport to the racetrack…

[oldE]

No problem as long as they didn't get tired of lapping my tired old arse.
The young fellow who helps us hay started building his dirt track Malibu when he was 14. I believe he has raced for two years now and will be getting his driver's license about now. I dare say he understands far more about vehicle dynamics than most 16 year olds.
Old guys who have to worry about things like track and event insurance tend to be cautious and even reactionary.
Best of luck.

Les

[911 Rod]

How much seat time does he have in a car?