Baltimore Bridge collapse

[Scott Douglas]

Originally Posted by craigster59

My Son is a Cyber Security Specialist for Ports America. He just flew back last night from Long Beach Harbor where he has been setting up "firewalls" to prevent hacking into the ship's navigation systems. He says they get up to 23k hacking attempts per week.

Their hacking attempts are to either interrupt our supply chain or cause ships to go adrift until a ransom is paid. Everything on these vessels is "fly by wire" these days. There were 2 Harbor Masters on board the Dali when the accident occurred. I would think it would also be escorted by Tug boats.

He feels there could be something sinister involved. Baltimore is one of his ports and shipping is going to be crippled for a good while until things can be put back together. Godspeed to those involved.

The one link above where the guy is talking about how it happened in the inset box, said it was too short a time to deploy tugs. They would only have been used to undock the ship.
Seems to me having them escort it all the way out is the way to go now.

That's a lot of hacking attempts for one week. I'd think the ships systems would be air gapped to prevent that from happening.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

The one link above where the guy is talking about how it happened in the inset box, said it was too short a time to deploy tugs. They would only have been used to undock the ship.
Seems to me having them escort it all the way out is the way to go now.

That's a lot of hacking attempts for one week. I'd think the ships systems would be air gapped to prevent that from happening.

It's not just the ships, it's the whole infrastructure. Container logistics and management, billing, customs clearing, navigation, etc.

I'm not real computer savvy. He's the whiz. He has ethical hacking certificates and degrees and certifications that boggle the mind. He can hack into your stuff in under 5 minutes.

He tries to explain it to me but it's like he's speaking a foreign language. Most people think hacking is credit cards and bank accounts. That's small potatoes. The Big Boys go after information systems and navigation, crippling your whole infrastructure until you transfer Bitcoin or other untraceable assets.

[Scott Douglas]

I've heard of the cyber war that is happening behind the scenes. Something we're lacking in protection of from what the guys I've heard say.

[TimT]

I recently retired after an almost 40 year career involved with designing, building, repairing bridges in the metro NY area... Having said that I am by no means an expert.. I was still learning my craft when I retired...

The Key bridge appears to be a continuous span cantilever truss bridge... Even though bridges are designed concerns for safety and factors of safety.. many structures have been upgraded to meet the seismic requirements. However design concerns would not include an impact by a large vessel...

Most bridges with a navigable channel have a protection system (dolphins or fenders)
to protect the piers on either side of the channel..

However the dolphins wouldn't stand a chance being impacted by a 117000 ton ship going X knots..

From the pictures and videos I have seen the ship hit the pier directly at a 90 deg angle. destroying an intermediate pier.. and then like pulling the wrong piece in jenga.. the bridge came down..

[Baz]

Originally Posted by craigster59

In case you aren't aware of the importance to our supply chain that the Port of Baltimore and Chesapeake is..

Craig - thanks for your input here. Can you explain what we're seeing on this map for dunderheads like myself? TIA!

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by craigster59

It's not just the ships, it's the whole infrastructure. Container logistics and management, billing, customs clearing, navigation, etc..

Really interesting posts, Craig.

Thanks.

[Rtrorkt]

link to a video of the collapse. it went down quickly
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68663488

[jrj3rd]

Originally Posted by Baz

Craig - thanks for your input here. Can you explain what we're seeing on this map for dunderheads like myself? TIA!

Baz
Yellow line is the now missing bridge. All the red dots are shipping ports. Baltimore is largest roll on roll off facility on the east coast. The ports handle containers, cars, trucks, coal as well as sugar (Dominos is one of the top left hand dots) and cruise ships. Everything will divert to Norfolk Va, NJ and NY ports. Much larger for container freight.

Would think the channel will be cleared relatively quickly as they can cut and pull the steel structure. That would get the port back open and functioning.

Fortunately the road traffic over the bridge is probably less than 10% of the total traffic moving north-south in that area. Most of the vehicle traffic uses the two tunnels that you can see slightly above the yellow line crossing the water (I95 and I895 tunnels). Bridge only has 11 million crossings a year (30K a day).

[Baz]

Originally Posted by jrj3rd

Baz
Yellow line is the now missing bridge. All the red dots are shipping ports. Baltimore is largest roll on roll off facility on the east coast. The ports handle containers, cars, trucks, coal as well as sugar (Dominos is one of the top left hand dots) and cruise ships. Everything will divert to Norfolk Va, NJ and NY ports. Much larger for container freight.

Would think the channel will be cleared relatively quickly as they can cut and pull the steel structure. That would get the port back open and functioning.

Fortunately the road traffic over the bridge is probably less than 10% of the total traffic moving north-south in that area. Most of the vehicle traffic uses the two tunnels that you can see slightly above the yellow line crossing the water (I95 and I895 tunnels). Bridge only has 11 million crossings a year (30K a day).

OK thank you, jrj!

[Steve Carlton]

I would think the time of the distress call would be more relevant.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by TimT

I recently retired after an almost 40 year career involved with designing, building, repairing bridges in the metro NY area... Having said that I am by no means an expert.. I was still learning my craft when I retired...

The Key bridge appears to be a continuous span cantilever truss bridge... Even though bridges are designed concerns for safety and factors of safety.. many structures have been upgraded to meet the seismic requirements. However design concerns would not include an impact by a large vessel...

Most bridges with a navigable channel have a protection system (dolphins or fenders)
to protect the piers on either side of the channel..

However the dolphins wouldn't stand a chance being impacted by a 117000 ton ship going X knots..

From the pictures and videos I have seen the ship hit the pier directly at a 90 deg angle. destroying an intermediate pier.. and then like pulling the wrong piece in jenga.. the bridge came down..

Better explanation than anything I've seen on TV. Thanks.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Since when did PPOT become a news source as good as other corporate news product?


Well... I learned about this collapse this am from pelican.
I watched the live collapse of the bridge from links here.
I didn't see too many cars going back an forth at the time, but as a pelican I thought about inertia- a car moving at 50 mph or more forward with a sudden kinematic acceleration in a gravitational velocity hitting water at a high rate of wtf stopping flat on some cold water dime.

What would be the odds of not only surviving that impact, but negotiating a Tom Hanks castaway sinking plane of sinking car and debri to get back to the surface?

I saw that movie in theatres when it came out, I didn't enjoy it. I was simply sick to my stomach.

When I went to work this morning, I drove a bit relieved. In a worst case scenario, I might hit a deer.

But then, it occurred, the lights on the bridge weren't (for the most part) moving. It was a construction zone. Then my thoughts went to a construction suit. Heavy duty. In the rescue squad we had to wear steel toed boots for safety. Did they?

Good God.

That wasn't swimwear.

Not an uplifting post, but, my heart goes out to them all.

Effin' awful. I hated that bridge on a good day.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Really interesting posts, Craig.

Thanks.

I learned all of this from my Son. He has been traveling A LOT securing ports in Long Beach, New Jersey, Savannah, Miami, Jacksonville and next month Austria and Switzerland.

Funny enough he is based out of Gilbert Arizona. He gets calls at all hours to work on cyber attacks which he enjoys. He also generates company wide "hacking emails" and counsels those that mistakenly click on the embedded "hacking link".

He's also a Star Wars Geek....

[TimT]

This picture is very odd.... note the protection around the towers carrying power lines... looks quite robust...

The sharpness of this photo sucks... but I see no protection around the piers of the bridges.... not that they would do anything with the sort of impact from the ship




This photo is sharper and I'm not sure if the four roundish objects seen are supposed to be pier protection...If so poor design

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I wonder how current they were on periodic maintenance

That was one of my first thoughts too. Soon the blame game will start.

Also there is a very big boozing culture onboard ships. I hope the captain/pilots weren't drunk and started pushing the wrong buttons.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

22 crewmen of Indian nationality were on board. These big ships can have satellite comm back to headquarters about real time operating & location data. The bunny trail is there to follow.
Maersk shipping has some explaining to do. Less than a half hour from the dock all power is lost.

[rcooled]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I wonder how current they were on periodic maintenance

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

That was one of my first thoughts too.

A news report I saw this morning said that a recent inspection of area bridges resulted in a "Fair" rating for the FSK span.

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

Since when did PPOT become a news source as good as other corporate news product?


Well... I learned about this collapse this am from pelican.
I watched the live collapse of the bridge from links here.
I didn't see too many cars going back an forth at the time, but as a pelican I thought about inertia- a car moving at 50 mph or more forward with a sudden kinematic acceleration in a gravitational velocity hitting water at a high rate of wtf stopping flat on some cold water dime.

What would be the odds of not only surviving that impact, but negotiating a Tom Hanks castaway sinking plane of sinking car and debri to get back to the surface?

I saw that movie in theatres when it came out, I didn't enjoy it. I was simply sick to my stomach.

When I went to work this morning, I drove a bit relieved. In a worst case scenario, I might hit a deer.

But then, it occurred, the lights on the bridge weren't (for the most part) moving. It was a construction zone. Then my thoughts went to a construction suit. Heavy duty. In the rescue squad we had to wear steel toed boots for safety. Did they?

Good God.

That wasn't swimwear.

Not an uplifting post, but, my heart goes out to them all.

Effin' awful. I hated that bridge on a good day.

I was just thinking the same thing. I've been checking this thread for updates because I can find out about things quicker here.

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[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by rcooled

A news report I saw this morning said that a recent inspection of area bridges resulted in a "Fair" rating for the FSK span.

I meant the maintenance of the ship. If it did lose power (and control) could the correct maintenance procedures have prevented this.

[HobieMarty]

Originally Posted by TimT

This picture is very odd.... note the protection around the towers carrying power lines... looks quite robust...



The sharpness of this photo sucks... but I see no protection around the piers of the bridges.... not that they would do anything with the sort of impact from the ship









This photo is sharper and I'm not sure if the four roundish objects seen are supposed to be pier protection...If so poor design

I also was wondering why the bridge pylons didn't have any protection around them especially being a busy port.

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