Counterfeit titanium in jets

[pwd72s]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/counterfeit-titanium-found-boeing-and-airbus-jets

Boeing is no longer the pride of American aviation. The plane manufacturer is riddled with so many problems it's impossible to keep track. Yesterday, the FAA announced an investigation (yet another...) into a 737 Max 8 jet that encountered a dangerous mid-flight 'Dutch roll' several weeks ago. Now, a report from the New York Times reveals that some Boeing jets are built with 'counterfeit titanium.'

Some recently manufactured Boeing and Airbus jets have components made from titanium that was sold using fake documentation verifying the material's authenticity, according to a supplier for the plane makers, raising concerns about the structural integrity of those airliners.

The falsified documents are being investigated by Spirit AeroSystems, which supplies fuselages for Boeing and wings for Airbus, as well as the Federal Aviation Administration. The investigation comes after a parts supplier found small holes in the material from corrosion. -NYT

The report continued: (click on link to read all)

[jcommin]

I read this today from another news source. Serious problem but it goes deeper. There is a big trend outsourcing parts in other industries as well. I'm retired but I worked for a Teir 1 automotive supplier. In my 35 years with the company, we were bought/sold 5 times. Every owner stressed profits and lower manufacturing costs. The idea of internal manufacturing is lost - you don't care where it is made - getting it outsourced outweighs the internal method. It comes at a cost of labor savings, but it also has risks: quality control and intellectual knowledge and processes. You can literally put the outsourced company in business and possibly a competitor.

[sc_rufctr]

I'm guessing "counterfeit titanium" is actually titanium but not of the correct grade for aircraft.

Titanium is really difficult to produce and there are not a lot of processing plants world wide (search "titanium sponge").

[LWJ]

I saw this. Not good at all. And interestingly have some experience with metals in the supply chain of aerospace and fraud. See SAPA Federal Lawsuit for details. People go to jail for this thing. And they should.

[Jeff Higgins]

The hits keep coming... "We", the engineering staff as a whole, first began raising concerns about the new direction we saw the company embarking upon in about the late 1990's. All of our concerns fell upon deaf ears. We were labeled as stuck in our ways, resistant to change, unable to "think outside the box". We would reply with "you have to know what is inside that box before you can understand the impacts of the changes you are pushing". All to no avail.

It was (and still is) a race to the bottom. Find the cheapest possible supplier who can provide the cheapest possible components. Offload, offload, offload. Then those to whom we had offloaded offloaded again, sometimes several suppliers deep. We lost track of who was building what. Then, even worse, we offloaded design responsibility. To companies that then offloaded portions of that as well. Then we didn't even know who was designing what.

As if things could not get any worse, then suppliers starting defaulting on their contracts, paying the fines to get out before our cost demands drove them under. Well, ok then, we'll find another supplier - give us your designs, and we'll part company. Not so fast - these are no longer Boeing's designs, they are the suppliers designs. We had to start over with someone else, often several "someone elses" because so many suppliers decided it was cheaper to bail out and pay the penalties than it was to continue.

The end result was a number of 787's dubbed as "the teenagers". About the first 15-18 meant for customer delivery after the first couple of flight and static test aircraft. We were not allowed (by the FAA) to sell those aircraft. For the simple reason that we could not tell them who built what. The documentation was so completely garbled and untraceable because of the constantly changing suppliers that we had lost track. We spent years removing and replacing untraceable parts. As far as I know most sit undelivered to this day.

This worked out for us in AOG as it turned out we had some "practice airplanes". When I designed new repair or maintenance equipment, we could actually try it out on a live bird before we had to travel with it. What a windfall for us, we never had that opportunity before. It was usually "best guess" and then modify and fit in the field in many cases. But what a hell of a way to be provided that opportunity...

I retired seven years ago. I loved my job and still miss it and the people with whom I was privileged to work. But I don't miss the company. Oh, I miss what it was when I started, a veritable playground for engineers, but I do not miss what it has become. What it has become is a large part of why I retired early.

[Alan A]

‘It was (and still is) a race to the bottom.‘

Every industry.
Private equity has accelerated the trend.

[pwd72s]

Very insightful, Jeff. Thanks for you post. It was honest but also frightening.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Alan A

‘It was (and still is) a race to the bottom.‘

Every industry.
Private equity has accelerated the trend.

Yep, it's the whole world these days. The most important thing is profitability, and the best way to get that is under/cheap staff and cheapest cost for anything that's going to be sold or turned into something that'll be sold.

[pwd72s]

Hidey-ho....off to PARF we go...? C'mon, guys.

[jyl]

Very disappointing. BA’s management needs to be completely overhauled. BA shareholders need to be stuck with many years of low earnings/no dividend until the company fixes itself and launches a new aircraft. I personally think BA HQ needs to be moved back to Seattle.

Similar to INTC, but INTC replaced top management, lit a huge fire under its own ass, revamped its business practices, and is on the way to recovery. Even so it has a good ways left and success is not certain.

What should we (USA) do if BA fails to turn it around? Let commercial airliners become an Airbus monopoly or an Airbus + China duopoly? Take control of BA and force change? Split off the military/space part and let the commercial part die?

BA’s problems are hurting others - LUV (Southwest) for one, it’s 100% Boeing fleet is a risk when BA isn’t delivering the planes LUV needs, and if travelers start avoiding Boeing aircraft, LUV will be screwed.

[pavulon]

"Chinesium" has been known to be real thing for decades. How can anyone making aircraft be caught sleeping on the issue today?

[A930Rocket]

It’s not just airplanes, it’s steel and material, for navy ships and submarines, etc.

[Scott Douglas]

When I was still working we had a problem with lifting fixtures being made of suspect titanium.
Couldn't trust lifting a multi-million dollar satellite with a bad piece in the lifting link. PIA to deal with when schedules were pushing the build.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

It’s not just airplanes, it’s steel and material, for navy ships and submarines, etc.

The Industrial might of the USA won WWII. Our miliary was supplied "in house", so to speak. We should get smart and do so again.

[A930Rocket]

Off-topic, but I watched a documentary yesterday about illegal salvaging of world war two ships in the Indonesia area. The metal is worth more, because it was not exposed to radiation. When they catch the dirtbags, they should lock them up for life.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

It’s not just airplanes, it’s steel and material, for navy ships and submarines, etc.

And many Rx/OTC ingredients as well.

[stealthn]

The fan blades are titanium right, that would be a worse failure! Don’t they have to x-rayed and verified? If they are passing crap every engineer and their bosses including executives should be charged!

[greglepore]

Yeah, and while its really bad in aircraft, ask your indy auto guy how long he expects to be in business with the current auto parts chain. Unless its a current production vehicle, everything in the aftermarket is suspect. It's not all bad, some actually vg, but its a total crapshoot.

[jyl]

The engines are made by other companies - GE, Pratt & Whitney, Rolls Royce. Engines can have problems - a big recall is costing Pratt & Whitney billions right now.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yep, it's the whole world these days. The most important thing is profitability, and the best way to get that is under/cheap staff and cheapest cost for anything that's going to be sold or turned into something that'll be sold.

1000% agree.
We've had over 40 years of experience with the Milton Friedman neo-liberal economic experiment and it has been an abject failure. It's time for corporate responsibility toward the people businesses have been exploiting.