First time HPDE

[berettafan]

Looking at doing an HPDE at Summit Point with my new GTI. Have ax'd in the past (different cars) but no real track time. I know the track via iRacing

My thinking is if I fall for track time I'd spend the winter months searching out an already prepped track car for HPDE days in the future. I suffer from a tall torso so Miata probably out but spec 944 might be a good option.

Track insurance runs about $450 for the weekend. That's a pretty stiff fee but I guess would seem cheap if I managed to find a tree or wall. I see conflicting reports on the risk level with HPDE 1 groups. Higher groups reportedly more likely to bend metal.

So my questions for the experienced guys here-
1- How reasonable is the pace with NASA HPDE1 classes?
2- Is Summit rough on brakes such that I would need to do high temp fluid and pads?
3- Is a two day event a good way to start or is that biting off too much?

Any other advice?

[GH85Carrera]

There are two main types of HPDE drivers. Drivers like myself that go just to have the fun of running through the gears and cornering hard, but running at 85% too 90% of max. And the guys that are just running with the red mist.



I am not a regular HPDE driver, and I drive an antique street car, so not fast as all. I do a lot of point bys foor the people in modern cars with double or way more HP, and they have all the modern bells and whistles and I have an analog car.

And for the curious, the track decals I have from left to right:
Hallett Raceway in Oklahoma
Texas International, which is now gone.
Charlotte super-speedway in Charlotte, NC
Roebling road, just outside of Savannah, GA
Laguna Seca in Monterey, CA
Indianapolis (just a follow the leader at 90 to 100 MPH)
Eagles Canyon outside of Decatur, TX
Ozark International Raceway near the lake of the Ozarks, in MO. My favorite of all. 4 miles long and 1,200 feet elevation change through a nature preserve.
Barber Motorsports in Birmingham, AL
Talladega Super-speedway. Another follow the leader. At 100 MPH I had to steer hard uphill to stay on the 33 degree banking. At 125 it was fairly neutral. AC running and my wife in the car cruising along comfortably. That was fun.

If you are looking at a track only car, the costs go way up. That means you need a tow pig, a trailer, and a race car. Several sets of tires and heavy maintenance.

I am too lazy and cheap to go that route. I just go to collect another fun track, and have fun driving fast and hard, legally.

[Rtrorkt]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Looking at doing an HPDE at Summit Point with my new GTI. Have ax'd in the past (different cars) but no real track time. I know the track via iRacing

My thinking is if I fall for track time I'd spend the winter months searching out an already prepped track car for HPDE days in the future. I suffer from a tall torso so Miata probably out but spec 944 might be a good option.

Track insurance runs about $450 for the weekend. That's a pretty stiff fee but I guess would seem cheap if I managed to find a tree or wall. I see conflicting reports on the risk level with HPDE 1 groups. Higher groups reportedly more likely to bend metal.

So my questions for the experienced guys here-
1- How reasonable is the pace with NASA HPDE1 classes?
2- Is Summit rough on brakes such that I would need to do high temp fluid and pads?
3- Is a two day event a good way to start or is that biting off too much?

Any other advice?

For about 10 years I was chief steward for Potomac DE. Stopped around 2000, now am safety chair for AZ DE. Summit Point was our track. If you are driving the original, it is a fun track with lots of interest. If you are a green group driver, you will most likely start with someone in the right seat. Take it easy, listen to your instructor and you will have a great time. Remember you are learning and it is not a race. Be aware of the flag stations and what they may be telling you.

The insurance is your call. I have not run with NASA but did with a couple of non-PCA groups. If passing is not well controlled, then my advice is complain to the organizers. All passing needs to be done with a point by. My biggest issue with the non-PCA organizers were there lack of attention to driver behavior.

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Looking at doing an HPDE at Summit Point with my new GTI. Have ax'd in the past (different cars) but no real track time. I know the track via iRacing

My thinking is if I fall for track time I'd spend the winter months searching out an already prepped track car for HPDE days in the future. I suffer from a tall torso so Miata probably out but spec 944 might be a good option.

Track insurance runs about $450 for the weekend. That's a pretty stiff fee but I guess would seem cheap if I managed to find a tree or wall. I see conflicting reports on the risk level with HPDE 1 groups. Higher groups reportedly more likely to bend metal.

So my questions for the experienced guys here-
1- How reasonable is the pace with NASA HPDE1 classes?
2- Is Summit rough on brakes such that I would need to do high temp fluid and pads?
3- Is a two day event a good way to start or is that biting off too much?

Any other advice?

Listen to your brakes. Street brakes will boil when pushed, so you need to be paying attention to their feel lap after lap, and if they start to feel like they're boiling you need to start cooling down right away. If boiling brakes are pushed they can go from squishy to gone very quickly, and then you're in the gravel.

Edit: and seconding what Glen said. If you're going to have a dedicated track car it's best if it's still street legal. I had a track only 944 for a while and I ended up taking the 911 to the track instead because it was more hassle than it was worth.

[WPOZZZ]

I would do high temp fluid and pads. Your car may be new, but the fluids and pads were made for everyday driving, not the track.

As for pace, you should be placed in a group based on your skill/experience. Your instructor will see right away where to put you. However, since you are new, you will probably be placed in the Novice group. I used to run the BMW CCA school for the Hawaii chapter and the most important thing is to go in there with the right mindset and an open mind.

[A930Rocket]

Nobody from F1 is scouting for drivers, so listen to your instructor, pay attention in class and more importantly, have fun.

If you run with one of the establish clubs like PCA or BMW CCA, they will require a tech inspection by an established shop. The shop will look the car over and make sure it’s up to snuff for the track ie brakes, brake fluid, tire tread depth, suspension, etc.

I like two day events, the first day you’re learning the track and the second day, you’re going a little bit faster and with more confidence. I like it even better, when they have an open track on Friday. Lots of seat time.

Lots of guys have dedicated track cars, but most are street legal. Mine is street legal (for SC), but I’ve reworked the suspension, headers/exhaust, stripped interior, lightened the car, harness, Hans, race seat, roll bar, etc. Since I don’t drive it very much on the street, I’m OK with it. For a daily driver, it wouldn’t be fun.

I would bleed the brakes with some decent brake fluid and verify your brake pads are at least 50% if not more.

I use Bosch brake fluid.

https://a.co/d/bJ0XAwH

Edit: Don’t forget to use your mirrors. If somebody catches up to you, they are faster. Let them by with a definitive hand signal. I hate wimpy hand signals. There’s nothing worse than catching up to somebody and they don’t give a signal to pass. And when they do, they don’t lift and it’s a drag race. Don’t be that guy!

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Squealing tires are happy tires.
Brakes are over rated.

[GH85Carrera]

Just remember getting the excess rubber and brake pads worn off just reduced unsprung weight!

[wildthing]

I've not run with NASA, but have run with HOD, and started with A, which sounds like the equivalent of 1. I have been skipping the insurance, as, much like Glen, I drive for fun. If you listen to your instructor and follow the passing rules you will probably be fine. I'd hold off the upgrades until you move up to 2 or 3. I'm in group B now and starting to regret my choice of Pilot 4S. I should've gone with the Cup 2 but this car doubles as an occasional commuter car that sees rain.

I say go for 2 days if you have the time, and your car can take it. Don't forget to run through the inspection checklist. NASA's checklist is less stringent than say PCA's, as I don't see a minimum brake pad thickness requirement in NASA's, for example.

[unclebilly]

On street tires and without harnesses you aren’t running anywhere near 80% of the cars capabilities. 65% at best.

Lapping in a conga line is not racing, not even remotely close. The only similarity is geography.

HDPEs are fun and can be an entry into racing.

Have fun, learn about your car, then repeat.

[911_Dude]

For a first time HPDE just make sure your car is in good condition, new brake fluid, good tires, coolant and have fun. High temp fluid is nice and all, but I doubt you will really need it this time and you need to change out high temp fluid very often. Also you mentioned "familiar with track" because of a sim- I would say thats only good for learning the turns, but forget any game techniques you learned in the sim for taking turns, etc. It wont translate well.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

On street tires and without harnesses you aren’t running anywhere near 80% of the cars capabilities. 65% at best.

Lapping in a conga line is not racing, not even remotely close. The only similarity is geography.

HDPEs are fun and can be an entry into racing.

Have fun, learn about your car, then repeat.

For sure, it is just having fun in your car pushing hard and no worries of a ticket. At Missouri International a new driver was in my run group with a 911 GT2 RS. 700+ HP and she was lapping way fast than I was. Yea, big shocker. At one point she came up behind me and I pointer her by and stayed pedal to the metal at 4,000 to redline as she blew past me like I was pulling a trailer.

I tell all the other drivers in my run group, I have no ego in the drive. I will give you a point by as soon as I can.

+
This is at Barber. The prettiest track on the planet. It is the Augusta of race tracks.

[Jeff Higgins]

Over the last 25 years I have accumulated well over 80, probably closer to 100 HDPE's on my car. I have never felt the need for track day insurance. I feel much safer on track than on the street, with everyone on the same page, going the same direction, no driveways or cross streets, and clearly enforced rules. It just doesn't get any safer than that.

You control your own destiny out there. You go at whatever pace you like. No one can make you go any faster than you are comfortable. The only real danger, which many have already alluded to, is you - if you let your ego take control, if you exercise poor judgement, then you have no one to blame but yourself. And, well, going in, you really, really need to have a brutally honest reckoning of "you", and then decide if you think you might "need" track day insurance. And, well, if the answer to that is an honest "yes", you might be better off staying home.

[gchappel]

Raced for 10yrs- including SM.
Drove and instructed for a bunch of hdpe clubs for another 10.
As above, make sure your car is in shape.
Otherwise just go and have a good time. Don't worry about times, don't worry about who you pass and who passes you. Listen to your instructor. Learn the lines. Learn your car. Learn your tires. I don't really want my 1st time students to be anywhere near the limit.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Have a good time.
The laws of physics do not change when you are on the track- the most important one to remember is: Two solid objects cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
You should come home with a big smile on your face- having already made plans to do it again.
gary

[unclebilly]

My first track day… over 20 years ago. if I look slow, it’s because I was.

[cockerpunk]

welcome to the actual reason why cars are fun.

check your ego at the door. no matter what age, and what level of experience you think you have, you are there to learn. HDPE is practice. and you are there to learn everything you can. most often the issue i find with new HPDE students is that they dont know or think they are students. ego destroys more cars than anything else.

feel your brake petal, that is what will give out first. also if you have a way to check oil temp, thats a good call too. but by and large, unless you have a tune, or have modified your engine you should be ok with short sessions. 15-20 minutes. even modern turbo cars tend to be able to do survive that.

[911 Rod]

Don't over think it.
Soak in your first HPDE weekend and enjoy!
What I would give to be able to start all over again.

[aschen]

Its awesome yall get your old oil pumpers out for HPDE events.


My hpde rule is stay out of traffic. I always try to find a bit of free space, if I catch traffic I slow down for a few laps. If someone is closing in on my I slow down and wave them by early.

[911michael]

Is there a strong recommendation between open face helmets versus full face helmets? Or is it basically personal preference?

[wildthing]

Personally, I prefer open face as it's cheaper. Also my car has a windshield.

But, after my open face Bell expired, I bought a lighter full face one because I liked the matte black from Sparco.

Comfort and fit should be your priority. Other things to consider: 1) ease of putting in an earpiece/headset to communicate with your student/instructor; 2) ease of putting in glasses if you need them.