Dec 14, GT3 RS goes over the side on Angels Crest, anyone we know?

[911boost]

Totally agree with Matt, Jeff.

My GT3 had been retired from track duty by a previous owner, and while the cage is still in the back it has been covered with leather, matching the deviated stitching in the seats. I don’t even want to know what that cost…. I have a great time street driving it and it brings a smile to my face every time I am behind the wheel, I have no doubt yours will either!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Way more to life than lap times Jeff, and I think you have a great opportunity with your 911. Years ago I bought a somewhat tired SCCA G50 Targa and turned it into a really fun street-able hot rod. There’s a fun confluence point where you can combine street and track and make for a really fun car, particularly when you don’t care about lap times.

Originally Posted by 911boost

Totally agree with Matt, Jeff.

My GT3 had been retired from track duty by a previous owner, and while the cage is still in the back it has been covered with leather, matching the deviated stitching in the seats. I don’t even want to know what that cost…. I have a great time street driving it and it brings a smile to my face every time I am behind the wheel, I have no doubt yours will either!

Yup, you guys are on the same page as Jerry and I. Track time is fun, no doubt, but it's not everything. It was for me, for an awfully long time, but I think it's mostly behind me at this point.

My car is actually not that far gone. I do drive it quite a bit as a street car as well. Hell, as mentioned in my recent tech forum thread, I just rebuilt my 3.0 liter after over 80 track days and 120,000+ miles in the last 15 or so years. It's remarkably comfortable on long hauls, as evidenced by last spring's drive to our club's Treffen. Seattle to Sante Fe, the long way. About 4,500 miles round trip, and I was never uncomfortable. Race seats are not only very restraining, they offer great support and are remarkably comfortable on long drives.

The only "problems" were that if I was not wearing my noise cancelling headphones and listening to tunes, I was wearing earplugs. That and not much room for luggage. Fixed back seats and roll bar demand only soft luggage in the back seat area, and ST style crossover oil lines in the trunk above the gas tank get hot, limiting what I want to put up there.

So, overall, pretty darn comfortable if I travel light, with no one to talk to. Because that would be impossible. I would like to take my wife along. I do have a Boxster for that, and she loves it, so maybe much of this is moot. It's good for me, but it's like being on a motorcycle. I'm torn, obviously, and just kinda rambling... But my "track car" really isn't anymore...

[oldE]

Jeff, have you ever considered aircraft style headsets and mics for traveling with someone in the '72?

Best
Les

[ted]

I once thought there was more value in having a dual purpose car.
Licensed and insured production car modified for the track.
That way you can drive it at home or on the track.
While these cars may be better on track than stock they can be loud, hot and a hard ride on public roads.
To do both street and track the set up must be generic, not optimized for either track or street.
My last sports purpose street car.

I sold all my modified street cars and now feel fortunate to own a dedicated race car.
Just as important 5 minutes from my house is a well equipped race shop with a college educated race engineer that worked for RCR for 12 years.
Driving a well sorted race car on a track is very rewarding.
At 67 years old I am not a lap time guy but with it came new personal bests at Big Willow and Laguna Seca, 4 poles, 3 wins and a 2nd place this year.
And my wife went to the races and we camped at the track and she helped me run the car.
So fun camping with family and race cars, life is better at the track.
Change my mind.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Jeff, on my G50 I installed an elastomeric liquid sound deadening product on the floors that was quite light, installed basic carpet with a rear seat delete, OEM seats, and OEM door panels. More importantly I swapped the headers and stinger style minimal exhaust for SSIs and a Dansk 2-out. I’m not going to claim it was quiet but the sound level was tolerable and wife approved. Just one data point for striking the middle ground.

[red 928]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Guys...

For those of you with short memories apparently, THIS is the post that motivated Red's rant. And I felt exactly the same when I read this post.

Partially.

IIRC the post that pushed me over the edge was one
suggesting that people should be required to go through
driver training courses and get a special license before
they are allowed drive a fast car.
I'm paraphrasing from memory as I
don't see it anymore.
There's nothing wrong with someone changing or
taking down something he posted after reflection,
but it can skew the perception of others.

But above all that,
my post was more influenced by the decline of
society's value on freedom and individual responsibility.
The things that once made us all great and that
we have forgotten.

no matter what the problem, cause, or issue we as a whole
have been programmed to seek a solution of more regulation,
more rules, more nannies.
Even when the solution is worse than the problem it was intended to solve.

That irks me.

[pwd72s]

Me too...

[herr_oberst]

I haven't taken my post down. It's number 16, if you want to read it and shame me for having an opinion. That's an opinion that's been formed with over 60 years of car enthusiasm; who reveled in the covers of Road & Track and Car And Driver that broke the news of the Cannonball Sea to Sea and the 200 MPH Lingenfelter Corvette and the Yellow Bird Porsche. I'm guilty of driving triple digit speeds on public roads. I'll admit, that probably makes me a hypocrite, but the sheer volume of modern street legal supercars with easy access to 300kph speeds scares me. Lots of reasons why.
It's my opinion. Go ahead and mock me on an anonymous website. I'll get over it.

[Billiam 911 2.8]

When I was younger I drove a highly modified 280z up on Skyline Blvd./Four Corners which was and still is a place where sport bikes and fast cars congregate. In the late 70s and early 80s, things were often interrupted by people being airlifted by helicopter truly giving reality to the phrase, donor cycles. In the mid eighties the CHP and Sheriff began cracking down on this. Bikes and cars don't seem to play well together.
I was well coached and took a mature approach to track driving, never trying to impress my instructors with how fast I could drive. For some the "red mist" can cloud judgment which is bad on track and even more so on roads like Angel's Crest and Skyline.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by red 928

IIRC the post that pushed me over the edge was one
suggesting that people should be required to go through
driver training courses and get a special license before
they are allowed drive a fast car.

Like pilot training and a pilot's license?

No doubt that would help and maybe it's appropriate. Our driver's education in this country is criminally insufficient. We suck as drivers because we are not taught how to drive, we are taught the rules of driving.

I saw the value of this when I was involved with an MSF (motorcycle riding) training course years ago. Two and a half days of instruction and practice made a world of difference in the skill level of riders. Without it, new riders had little to no chance.

That said, I also found that my own driving skills degraded when I went a period of time (weeks, months?) without a track event or autocross. No substitute for recent seat time and repetition.

You can buy a hang glider or ultra lite and fly it (however poorly) with a few hours of instruction. Buy an L39 and expect to spend years acquiring the skill and licenses to fly it.

Food for thought.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by red 928

no matter what the problem, cause, or issue we as a whole
have been programmed to seek a solution of more regulation,
more rules, more nannies.
Even when the solution is worse than the problem it was intended to solve.

That irks me.

Originally Posted by javadog

You can buy a hang glider or ultra lite and fly it (however poorly) with a few hours of instruction. Buy an L39 and expect to spend years acquiring the skill and licenses to fly it.

You will likely only kill yourself on a hang glider, do what you want, I don't care.

The cars being discussed here can, and do, endanger other drivers and pedestrians when used recklessly, or without appropriate skill/training. There's a logical dividing line. Yea, you have rights, and the rest of society has a right to be safe.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

You will likely only kill yourself on a hang glider, do what you want, I don't care.

The cars being discussed here can, and do, endanger other drivers and pedestrians when used recklessly, or without appropriate skill/training. There's a logical dividing line. Yea, you have rights, and the rest of society has a right to be safe.

Valid point. Your rights end where mine begin.

[ted]

It is not mandatory but fortunately many of us on this thread have been through PCA or POC driver instruction on safe AX tracks or big tracks.
Some progress to driving instructor and volunteer time to teach new drivers.
Many times the new super car owner's ego makes them less than receptive to instruction or safety warnings from instructors with more experience.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

You will likely only kill yourself on a hang glider, do what you want, I don't care.

The cars being discussed here can, and do, endanger other drivers and pedestrians when used recklessly, or without appropriate skill/training. There's a logical dividing line. Yea, you have rights, and the rest of society has a right to be safe.

Somehow, I think you missed entirely the point of my post.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

...
The cars being discussed here can, and do, endanger other drivers and pedestrians ...

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by javadog

Somehow, I think you missed entirely the point of my post.

I was not replying to you...I did not miss your point.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I was not replying to you...

We’ll, color me confused, as your reply quoted mine…

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by ted

It is not mandatory but fortunately many of us on this thread have been through PCA or POC driver instruction on safe AX tracks or big tracks.
Some progress to driving instructor and volunteer time to teach new drivers.
Many times the new super car owner's ego makes them less than receptive to instruction or safety warnings from instructors with more experience.

Ego...very valid point. A recently deceased buddy was an F-111 pilot, also a flight instructor later in his Air Force career. Told me of a time when instructing Saudis...said they were terrible pilots because they wouldn't really take instruction. Why not? "They were Royalty, didn't think an Infidel could teach them anything."

I doubt many here could outdrive Jack Olson on the streets of Willow...it's his thing. But on these pages, he admitted that a pro would do better. I admired him for admitting that.

Perhaps some here will remember Gary Wright...guess a semi-pro. Drove both Daytona and Sebring as a hired gun back in the early days. I was beginning to think I was pretty good, with a string of Auto-X wins. He instructed me at PIR. He drove a few laps...and would do things just as I was thinking I'd do them...just amazing hand-eye and reflexes. I knew right then I'd never reach the ranks of his level. Just too slow...

But knowing this probably saved my bacon more than once..

[deckard]

at one point during years of pca driver events i was in the passenger seat on track and the driver/instructor, when comng up to turn six, says, " that cone is not in the right place. somebody is going to get hurt."
he moves the car farther over, still at speed, and hits the cone. i looked at it in the passenger side mirror after we hit it and saw it wobble its way to a different spot.
he didn't knock it over.
when we came back round, still at speed, the driver said, "it's still not in the right spot." and hit it again.
once again he didn't knock it over and it wobbled "walked" its way over towards the apex.
when we came back around for the third time the driver said, "there, that's better." and we kept lapping.
after we came in from the cooldown lap i looked along the side of the car for scuff marks and couldn't find any.

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by ted

I once thought there was more value in having a dual purpose car.
Licensed and insured production car modified for the track.
That way you can drive it at home or on the track.
While these cars may be better on track than stock they can be loud, hot and a hard ride on public roads.
To do both street and track the set up must be generic, not optimized for either track or street.
My last sports purpose street car.

I sold all my modified street cars and now feel fortunate to own a dedicated race car.
Just as important 5 minutes from my house is a well equipped race shop with a college educated race engineer that worked for RCR for 12 years.
Driving a well sorted race car on a track is very rewarding.
At 67 years old I am not a lap time guy but with it came new personal bests at Big Willow and Laguna Seca, 4 poles, 3 wins and a 2nd place this year.
And my wife went to the races and we camped at the track and she helped me run the car.
So fun camping with family and race cars, life is better at the track.
Change my mind.

I with Ted here on this one. I have some mildly modified street cars (suspension, big engines) that are built for street now. I have a Radical SR3 for track. The Radical in an amazing track car, and the mildly modified street cars are fun for street, without being tiresome.

Cheers