Armed citizens and the police:

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

That only applies to CA. Go to a free state. Can shoot the aggressor in the back for committing violent felony (ies).

Do you need me to list some recent high profile examples of people getting convicted of murder for bad citizen shootings in “free states?”

What a bunch of nonsense.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by speeder

Do you need me to list some recent high profile examples of people getting convicted of murder for bad citizen shootings in “free states?”

What a bunch of nonsense.

They must have not been in a free state.

One doesn’t live in a free state unless attempted forced entry is a violent felony, thus perfectly legal to shoot through your house/car door to stop such criminal activity.

FAFO


Is weezer playing in Moscow anytime soon?!
Inquiring minds want to know.

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by fintstone

A little off topic, but it surprised me that celebrities lived in what appeared in the photo to be such a middle class (or even lower middle-class neighborhood) as shown in the photos. I did a little research and saw that those homes were all valued at more than $1M. Some much more. They would not even be half that where I live.

It is amazing what it costs to live in/near LA now. It probably seems normal if you live there. Great weather, but I can buy/sell a 4000-6000 sq ft. brick home with a 3-car garage on 10 acres for that with a cherry '89 911 in the garage included.

My sister lives in a quaint little house near the border with Pasadena. It's a glorified cottage. $1.5 million easily.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

My sister lives in a quaint little house near the border with Pasadena. It's a glorified cottage. $1.5 million easily.

Nice if you are a seller, rough if you are a buyer.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

They must have not been in a free state.

One doesn’t live in a free state unless attempted forced entry is a violent felony, thus perfectly legal to shoot through your house/car door to stop such criminal activity.

FAFO


Is weezer playing in Moscow anytime soon?!
Inquiring minds want to know.

By that measure, CA is a “free state.” You are one confused puppy.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by speeder

By that measure, CA is a “free state.” You are one confused puppy.

Tyfys

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

That only applies to CA. Go to a free state. Can shoot the aggressor in the back for committing violent felony (ies).

Es Verdat, take it from a native

They are bringing back "duty to retreat"

This state has more unconstitutional laws than any other. Then after they blow millions of dollars losing in court, they pass the law again with minimal changes and start over. That, and the criminally negligent management are pretty infuriating.

[DavidI]

This entire situation sucks. At the terminus of a pursuit, there is always chaos. Seasoned cops and supervisors do their best to bring calm to chaos during these times. Until we have more facts, it is difficult to analyze or provide substantial opinions. This incident will be ripped apart and reviewed by many entities to gain the closest reality to what actually happened.

It is seldom a good idea to exit your home with a firearm when police are around. It is always a good idea to follow their instructions as well. Pointing your firearm at a person and firing a round makes you responsible for the outcome.

When police helicopters are overhead during a critical incident, when they drop below their normal altitude, it is very difficult to hear the police radio or hear orders. During these incidents, we asked them to ascend so we could deal with the critical incident.

Until we know the facts, none of us understand the situation and I'll reserve my judgment.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by DavidI

Until we know the facts, none of us understand the situation and I'll reserve my judgment.

This is not how off topic works. Speculate, pontificate, judicate. Then bring out the alternative facts to bolster your argument after the official report comes out.

(JK. Thanks for posting up David. Your summary and your experience are all this situation needs at this time. I can't imagine what life for this woman will be like in the foreseeable future, but it's surely not great.)

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by DavidI

When police helicopters are overhead during a critical incident, when they drop below their normal altitude, it is very difficult to hear the police radio or hear orders. During these incidents, we asked them to ascend so we could deal with the critical incident.

I heard this on the 1st news report on the incident that she likely could not hear the officers due to the aircraft. Was the footage that was being shown on news the from a law enforcement chopper? I just figured it was video from one of the flock of media choppers in the So Cal area.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by DavidI

Until we know the facts, none of us understand the situation and I'll reserve my judgment.

In stone.

[thingmon]

Ah, I thought that name sounded familiar.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt13988060/

Interesting show.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

I heard this on the 1st news report on the incident that she likely could not hear the officers due to the aircraft. Was the footage that was being shown on news the from a law enforcement chopper? I just figured it was video from one of the flock of media choppers in the So Cal area.

Ok, but could she SEE the law enforcement officers?
As already stated, detectives were in plain clothes very rarely are involved in these types of searches and, uniformed officers come to the front door (while other officers in searching for the suspects) .
If you are armed, because of a situation as soon as you see law enforcement, you lower the weapon and make sure you have your hands in plain sight.
Question, how many people here, not involved with law enforcement have been surprised by seeing them on your property?
And the point of my other comment was that not all law enforcement is against individuals being armed and have asked for assistance, just like not all judges are against it.

[speeder]

In predictable PPOT fashion, this thread has gone off the rails with rampant speculation and completely irrelevant political commentary. Plus a few rational posts, like the one from DavidI, an actual cop. I rode with him once on patrol, (technically supervising), and other good cops who do not judge books by covers. Everything is situational and they try to deal in facts as they may be available.

I don’t have any first hand knowledge and I obviously wasn’t there but I can say for 100% sure that this was a terrible accident on her part. She’s lucky she wasn’t killed. Now she faces the legal consequences of her actions, regardless of intent or her (mis)understanding of the situation at the time.

As for the asinine “free state” comments, there isn’t a state or country anywhere where you can point a gun at police and maybe squeeze off a round without getting shot.

[DavidI]

Originally Posted by speeder

In predictable PPOT fashion, this thread has gone off the rails with rampant speculation and completely irrelevant political commentary. Plus a few rational posts, like the one from DavidI, an actual cop. I rode with him once on patrol, (technically supervising), and other good cops who do not judge books by covers. Everything is situational and they try to deal in facts as they may be available.

I don’t have any first hand knowledge and I obviously wasn’t there but I can say for 100% sure that this was a terrible accident on her part. She’s lucky she wasn’t killed. Now she faces the legal consequences of her actions, regardless of intent or her (mis)understanding of the situation at the time.

As for the asinine “free state” comments, there isn’t a state or country anywhere where you can point a gun at police and maybe squeeze off a round without getting shot.

We had a fun graveyard shift in Compton, Denis! Rock on brother, David

[KFC911]

David hasn't fit in here for a long time

May he never !

[Billiam 911 2.8]

Originally Posted by speeder

In predictable PPOT fashion, this thread has gone off the rails with rampant speculation and completely irrelevant political commentary. Plus a few rational posts, like the one from DavidI, an actual cop. I rode with him once on patrol, (technically supervising), and other good cops who do not judge books by covers. Everything is situational and they try to deal in facts as they may be available.

I don’t have any first hand knowledge and I obviously wasn’t there but I can say for 100% sure that this was a terrible accident on her part. She’s lucky she wasn’t killed. Now she faces the legal consequences of her actions, regardless of intent or her (mis)understanding of the situation at the time.

As for the asinine “free state” comments, there isn’t a state or country anywhere where you can point a gun at police and maybe squeeze off a round without getting shot.

As a veteran of these boards, you know they can't help themselves.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Despite being a huge Weezer fan going back to the ‘90s and seeing them in concert multiple times I somehow missed this thread. Even in states that have castle doctrine laws (like KS) you aren’t allowed to use lethal force to defend your property. Which means that I can’t shoot someone that’s stealing my car, and if I confront him with a gun it gets gray really quick because some judges may rule that I instigated an armed conflict as the aggressor. If someone sets foot inside of my house then the law is 100% on my side, same story if I’m carrying and have someone attempt to rob me. Based on all the facts presented thus far I agree that she should have armed herself and stayed inside to allow the police to do their jobs.

One thing I very vividly remember from my CCH class was that the cops don’t know you. If you stop an armed robbery and they show up, you’re a still stranger with a gun in your hand.

[Tobra]

Not true Matt

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Not true Matt

Which part? There are some states that will allow you to defend your property with lethal force, but even those have limits. For instance when I was living in TX there was a homeowner charged when he shot someone attempting to steal his car in the back when they attempted to run away.