Oopsy! Waymo drove around/past a stopped, loading/unloading school bus!

[masraum]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a69093599/waymo-federal-investigation-driving-around-stopped-school-bus/

Waymo Under Federal Investigation for Driving Around Stopped School Bus

One of the first rules taught in any competent driver's education course is that school buses are sacred. Stopping for the extended arm is burned into our collective driving instincts ... but the same behavior is not so instinctual for self-driving cars.

That's why autonomous vehicle startup Waymo is currently under a federal probe, according to a new announcement by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The investigation, which was officially opened on October 17, claims that the autonomous rideshare service's vehicle may have a pattern of failing to yield to the school buses, specifically citing an incident in which a Waymo ignored a school bus that was stopped with its red lights flashing, stop sign out, and crossing control arm deployed.

"In the incident, the Waymo AV approached the right side of the stopped school bus from a perpendicular side street. The AV initially stopped, but then drove around the front of the bus by briefly turning right to avoid running into the bus’s right front end, then turning left to pass in front of the bus, and then turning further left and driving down the roadway past the entire left side of the bus," the investigation announcement reads.

This specific incident, which has been reported on by other media outlets, was enough to spark the federal investigation. Waymo confirmed that the rideshare vehicle was operating with its proprietary fifth generation automated driving system during the incident and there was no safety operator present. NHTSA documents claim that Waymo's autonomous driving services clock over two million miles a week across the country, leading investigators to believe "the likelihood of other prior similar incidents is high."

A Waymo spokesperson told Reuters that the company has already developed and implemented fixes to this school bus yielding problem, and is planning to add additional software updates in their next release. The California-based operator added that "driving safely around children has always been one of Waymo's highest priorities," and claimed that the angle of the turn in the incident prevented the vehicle from identifying the school bus properly.

"In the event referenced, the vehicle approached the school bus from an angle where the flashing lights and stop sign were not visible and drove slowly around the front of the bus before driving past it, keeping a safe distance from children," Waymo told Reuters.

With 1500 vehicles operating in cities across the country including San Francisco and Phoenix, Waymo is one of the most respected autonomous vehicle operators, particularly given its combination of camera- and lidar-based operating and safety systems. Next steps for federal investigators will include understanding how Waymo programs its vehicles to behave around school buses and if the system is strict in its abilities to follow traffic safety laws. And for the record, Alphabet-owned Waymo isn't alone in having the feds cast an eye its way; this investigation comes after a series of probes have been opened into Tesla's Autopilot and Full Self-Driving semi-autonomous systems.

[GH85Carrera]

Send a big fine to Wamo, and if it happens again, ban them from the roads until that is fixed.

100% inexcusable.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Send a big fine to Wamo, and if it happens again, ban them from the roads until that is fixed.

100% inexcusable.

Supposedly, already fixed. But yeah, big (read "HUGE") fine regardless of whether it's now fixed or not. Beta testing when it's the lives of kids, potentially little kids, is not acceptible. My first thought was a temporary revocation of their license to operate, but at the same time, that sort of thing may be enough to put them out of business, and I don't think that this warrants putting the company out of business (unless it keeps happpening).

[LEAKYSEALS951]

"driving safely around children has always been one of Waymo's highest priorities,"

LOL- It did a really good job driving around children- a whole busload.

waymo should go to court, appeal to the judge, and then take drivers ed to reduce points on it's record.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

"driving safely around children has always been one of Waymo's highest priorities,"

LOL- It did a really good job driving around children- a whole busload.

waymo should go to court, appeal to the judge, and then take drivers ed to reduce points on it's record.

AI doesn't need a driver's license...

[Seahawk]

I have no issues with the tech and the goals of Waymo; here is their test "protocals".

https://assets.ctfassets.net/e6t5diu0txbw/2ixrl74N2SPK4qwIAdJI8E/8d69b50a102b8f2638a2334ff86dd28b/Collision_Avoidance_Testing_of_the_Waymo_Automated _Driving_System__1_.pdf

I could drive a Waymo Semi Tractor trailer through that document.

Operating a car autonomously on roads makes unmanning aircraft look like a lay-up.

There is a reason Waymo started operations in Arizona...the amount of influences on an autonomous car are exponentially more daunting than what a drone senses.

My issue is, as always, when are conditions too much for Waymo and the park themselves. They must come to grips with that. Aviation does.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Just another example of how hard autonomous driving (or flight) actually is. How do you account for every possible variable so the machine knows how to react? Granted you’d think programming in school busses would have been a pretty big no-brainer…

[brainz01]

The City of Houston has been repaving seemingly every road in the city simultaneously in preparation for the 2026 World Cup.

As a result, traffic flows are changing daily, often with lots of orange cones and traffic being shifted in the opposing lanes to accommodate resurfacing of one side of the road at a time.

This has created numerous highly confusing driving situations, both logistically and visually, for me and others. And I've witnessed lots of in-the-moment wrong-way driving by humans.

And each time I've thought to myself: This is hard for humans, I'd love to know if/how self-driving vehicles are doing. We've only recently got Waymo. Most of the others vehicles have been semi-autonomous. I'm not hearing about any wrecks or stopped traffic, but it spooks me....

Sent from my CPH2451 using Tapatalk

[speeder]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Just another example of how hard autonomous driving (or flight) actually is. How do you account for every possible variable so the machine knows how to react? Granted you’d think programming in school busses would have been a pretty big no-brainer…

You'd think so but they didn't even account for Amazon and other delivery trucks, which are absolutely everywhere in modern America, (and just about everywhere else in the world)! They would get stuck behind delivery vans because they did not know that they could just go around them. They fixed that one but it's baby steps all the way for that company. They are getting better all the time, though. I don't mind sharing our crowded roads with them at all.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by speeder

You'd think so but they didn't even account for Amazon and other delivery trucks, which are absolutely everywhere in modern America, (and just about everywhere else in the world)! They would get stuck behind delivery vans because they did not know that they could just go around them. They fixed that one but it's baby steps all the way for that company. They are getting better all the time, though. I don't mind sharing our crowded roads with them at all.

Someone probably programmed the "if truck ahead = stop, then go around" to fix that, and forgot to tell the system "but school busses are different!"

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by masraum

Someone probably programmed the "if truck ahead = stop, then go around" to fix that, and forgot to tell the system "but school busses are different!"

Can it differentiate between school buses and delivery vans?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by masraum

Someone probably programmed the "if truck ahead = stop, then go around" to fix that, and forgot to tell the system "but school busses are different!"

I have no doubt that you are correct. These tech companies are staffed by young people with a lot of brain HP but the common sense of a turkey.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I have no issues with the tech and the goals of Waymo; here is their test "protocals".

https://assets.ctfassets.net/e6t5diu0txbw/2ixrl74N2SPK4qwIAdJI8E/8d69b50a102b8f2638a2334ff86dd28b/Collision_Avoidance_Testing_of_the_Waymo_Automated _Driving_System__1_.pdf

I could drive a Waymo Semi Tractor trailer through that document.

Operating a car autonomously on roads makes unmanning aircraft look like a lay-up.

There is a reason Waymo started operations in Arizona...the amount of influences on an autonomous car are exponentially more daunting than what a drone senses.

My issue is, as always, when are conditions too much for Waymo and the park themselves. They must come to grips with that. Aviation does.

My understanding that is if one has a thick wallet, you can go order a brand new Cessna 182, and get the full automated take off and landing autopilot. You better have a pilot on board as well however.

Our 2004 182T autopilot has to wait for the pilot to rotate and clear the airfield. Then just tell the autopilot what climb rate you want (within capabilities of the airframe) and what altitude you want to achieve, and what airport you are going to, and it will take you there, and announce arrival, and time for the pilot to assume command.

Most of our flights are get airborne, and go to a location and altitude for the aerial photo project, then head back to our home airport. Not much autopilot time.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Can it differentiate between school buses and delivery vans?

I would be surprised if it couldn't.

[Arizona_928]

AI models use learned database of images that they then compare to real life examples. I think they'll hardwire the software not to pass any bus, but I would imagine the difficulty for the AI to differentiate a school bus with a stop sign compared to a delivery truck that is parked at the end of a street (under a stop sign)...

[MMiller]

I was in Scottsdale last week. When I arrived at the hotel to check in, they had some construction going which created some confusion at the entry/parking lot. 2 Waymo's were there picking up passengers. They were struggling big time trying to navigate their way out of the parking lot. I stepped behind a concrete barrier until the Waymo cars got things sorted and were on their way.

[Por_sha911]

AI doesn't need a driver's license...
That said, it has killed a lot of people, yet no one cares.. hmmm

Our AI overlords have seen your post and will be sending someone to meet with you soon.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Our AI overlords have seen your post and will be sending someone to meet with you soon.

knock, knock...

[LEAKYSEALS951]

^they were at my house today asking about this thread.
I denied everything, and they left, but they got stuck behind an amazon truck in the driveway and are confused about a neighbor's bigfoot statue by the side of the road across the street.

Last I checked they were still parked there....

[john70t]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Granted you’d think programming in school busses would have been a pretty big no-brainer…

A). Most people people see non-usual traffic patterns ahead and go to Level 2 caution.
Either the driver ahead is insane, having mechanical issues, or there is a valid causation waiting for the next driver ie self, such as living things crossing the road.

B). Current A.I. only sees more obstacles.
I predict a paid subscription for "BMW driver mode" for assisted-driving.

For instance I was recently accelerating onto a freeway on-ramp at night at about 40-50mph. Car behind. Wide open and straight. Didn't have brights on, deer danger level was low, and it should have been a no brainer. Time to start texting that tax return right? I kid I kid. Bam. A huge black wheelbarrow right in the middle of the road hiding in a shadow. Brake and turn. Dodge that. Bam there again is the wheel and axle a few seconds ahead in the middle of the road. Dodge that.
The car behind thankfully kept distance and stopped....

The good ending is that I went back to move/pick it up and got a free $220 wheelbarrow after finding the remaining wheel in the weeds a few days later. A few scrapes but otherwise complete.


"In the event referenced, the vehicle approached the school bus from an angle where the flashing lights and stop sign were not visible and drove slowly around the front of the bus before driving past it, keeping a safe distance from children," Waymo told Reuters.

GMAFB. How many ReCaptchas do we have to click on to identify a school bus?

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/08/meet-the-6th-generation-waymo-driver/
"complete with camera, lidar, and radar"

I'm sure their dash footage is totally submit-able as valid defense evidence in court.