I actually think that this thread has started to achieve some level of decorum...although the slams continue. Whatever. Some of them are actually funny if looked at from the appropriate angle. Some aren't.

That's the part that I don't understand. exc911ence lobbed a ball...let's call it "scammed." Perhaps he didn't mean it too seriously and he was just fishing to find out where he was at with the RGruppe, and what others thought about this. Fine. The problem that I see with so many threads is that others then take a small bait and blow it up into a very personal and ironically exclusive grandstand of their own.

I think if you were an outsider to any of these groups, you could easily find arrogance and baiting in many of the posts in this thread by those other than Cris or other GRuppers. One would also find many reasonable and thoughtful responses.

I would personally never go to a public forum with this question, especially here at Pelican where we RGruppe members have often been so well loved and respected. Yes...that was sarcastic. It's just a recipe for the exact result that occurred. Perhaps exc911ence didn't realize the scourge he was about to unleash upon the land. I woulda' bet Vegas odds on it.

I guess it just reinforces whichever myth about RGruppe you choose to hold on to, as we all build our own. Again...fine. In fact...one could say natural, human, imperfect, and passionate about what we all, each, individually believe in.

But when you call us out to defend ourselves, as if by not doing so we have agreed to and are implicit in this very limited new history of who we are, as defined by this single thread...that's when you simply prove how definitively not one of us you really are.

Having said that...I also know full well that I may not be one of you. But I do enjoy all of the various groups and their members when I run into them at the track, or the AutoFest, or Dunkels, or Monte-Rey, or where ever our cars may meet. We love Porsches. Period. And although your particular Porsche may not be my cup of tea...that's the beauty of the marquee and all it has to offer to so many. It supports the truth about life that it truly does take all kinds.

I have yet to find a thread on any site where an RGrupper started a fight in a public forum with another group or its members. I have read MANY threads where RGruppers felt a need to defend themselves and our GRuppe from what seemed to be unnecessary attacks.

You don't count Tabs. You've turned it into either an art form or a religion. And I mean that in the most positive L. Ron Hubbard sort of way.

You all really should come to an RGruppe event and hang out with us and the cars. You'll get a much better idea of who and what we are from that experience than from reading ANY of these threads. And I sincerely thank all of those who expressed as much here.

Cain
______________
1972 911S Coupe
1957 Speedster
RGruppe # 212

exc911ence,

You can come hang with us PNW types at any time (R-Grupper's, and they're representation up here are a class act IMHO). Be sure to attend the next SCWDP Round-Up to be held in BC this coming summer.

FWIW, I don't really care what you drive...as long as the crest is at the end of the hood all are welcome.

BTW, I've got a line on a '68 912 that looks VERY similar to yours (minus the Fuchs and ride height) except I'm looking to do a 3.5L, PMO'ed monster to reside in the rearend...probably won't be ready for the Round-Up though...back to convincing the wife I need another one...:D

Yay Verily
 

From high upon the mountain top stands TAbs with flowing beard pointing to the masses of Porschephiles below.... I speak unto you masses of Porschephiles...the R Gruppe fears no man...they are a religion unto themselves.....they defend their temple with all their might, though yee can defile their lands and women yee will never destroy their temple.....though they fear neither slings nor arrows it is only the words of I, Tabs...the man of wealth and taste that they fear, they cringe before the weight of what I say..for I speak the truth and that no man can plow asunder....

I wonder if I can make $5 a pop signing autographs at the next Porsche event???

"I wonder if I can make $5 a pop signing autographs at the next Porsche event???"

There's one next weekend.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/Events1.html

You were there last year, right? You can take a plane, hitch a ride or drive one of the cars in your stable. Perhaps the mustang unless the status of the pcar has changed.

After traveling all that way, I'll spring for your grub too, but I'd think twice about your autograph fee or a place at the head of the table (O' man of wealth and taste).

Sherwood

You accepted the challenge Tabs.

You have risen to new deitific heights!

Definitely worth 5 bucks.

Now even I can understand that clearly. Well said. And, if you want to join, you can't. And if you don't want to join, they'll think about it. It's the way it's always been.

IN SUPPORT OF MY GRUPPE....
 

THE RGRUPPE! First off, I WANT to voive my 100% support for Cris and JR! Everything Cris wrote in his reply EMAIL is 100% true! I am RGRUPPE member 248, and Cris personall called to welcome me to the club after receiving my $40 and application.

I have said this before, and I'll say it again: I have been a Porsche owner since 1976, first with 356's and now with both, 356 & 911. I attended 2 RGRUPPE events in Cambria, where I met many fantastic people and their cars, and then finally got around to asking to join. Most will remember all the fun we had with the 'secret ritual' thread and 'initiation' run.

The point is this: In ALL the other Porsche clubs combined, I have not met one-tenth of the GREAT people and friends I've met in the RGRUPPE. Hey, it's a free country; TAKE YOUR MONEY BACK AND GET LOST!

Re: Yay Verily
 

Hilarious! Absolutely f'in hilarious!
:D

Re: IN SUPPORT OF MY GRUPPE....
 

You have a strange concept of a "free country"... if it were truely free, you'd accept others opinions with an open mind, not with beligerant comments like this.

Now THAT'S Off Topic! :cool:

The group that keeps on giving. :rolleyes:

wow. Res ipsa loquitur.

Re: IN SUPPORT OF MY GRUPPE....
 

It can't be that great!!! They can't promote the virtues of R Gruppe without painting everyone else as inferior. More snobery.

Why do most of these posts in support end by putting someone else down? If you've had great experience participating in events or meeting other members, then just say that! I'd be inclined to believe you, if you could remain on a positive note.

I gotta tell ya it is laughable...

Right after some R Gruppe guy speaks of positive R Gruppe experiances all the 15 year old girls on here add doubt to the R Gruppe members actual club experiances.

Girls please tell me your R Gruppe knowledge is limited to what you read on the some forum, then I'll LMASO again.

Oh I just read a thread on R Gruppe so now I'm an expert. Oh did you read the thread on fuel injection now I'm an FI expert.
exc911ence blah blah blah.

Since you girls are not in R Gruppe how did you become R Gruppe experts?

Since we girls aren't allowed within the sainted confines of the Rgruppe, how else are we supposed to get a feel for the members other than reading their hysterical outbursts here on the forum?

ted keep up the good work! you continue to paint the group as many see you guys. the word pompous comes to mind.

not just a girl,, but a pretty girl!

Oh, don't be so hard on Ted... the "holier than thou" virus comes with the membership right from the top! ;)

heheheheheheh ok girls, thanks for answering my question.
Please continue with your misinformed outsiders forum based expert R Gruppe opinions.SmileWavy

Ted,

I'm open minded. Please enlighten me. As I've said before, there are some very nice people that are members of R Gruppe. I have communicated with a significant number, yourself included. That's why I'm so puzzled by the venomous and defensive attitudes I've seen.

Telling people they are not fit to be a member and "get lost" isn't very endearing. How else should us non-experts know R Gruppe other than by your public demeanor.

While you are talking about 15 year old girls: When you criticize the high school geek, not much comes of it because it's status quo. When you criticize the head of the cheerleading squad, you can't count on a cat fight.

This thing could have ended on page 4 if Cris had said, "Sorry, I didn't acknowledge your application and check. Please accept my appology and I would be happy to refund your money."

I'd bet Chris would be embarrassed by some of the comments made here by the RGruppe members.

Thank you for the invatation, I'll pass.SmileWavy

Since the topic is "What is Rgruppe", anyone got anymore cool pictures of modified 900 series cars they can share ?

Lothar et al:

Positive comments about RGruppe experiences have been mentioned in this thread.....

You have chosen to reply only to the negative, as have most others (who have posted in the "negative").

It's hard for those of us with truly wonderful experiences in the RGruppe (and the early S Registry, 356 Registry, PCA) etc., not to get "uptight" and "fume" at the negative responses.

I know the RGruppe members who have posted perhaps "argumentative" responses, and I know them well. I truly understand their feelings, and more than once have I typed a reply in this thread, only to "cancel" my response after I had calmed down.

If there is someone....somewhere who has had a negative impression of the RGruppe AFTER being at an RGruppe event......I would really like to hear from that person.....either online, or PM.

The medium we are communicating in here is difficult to get across "subtleties".....so it appears that shouting is the only way to be heard.

The thing that needs to be recognized is who "shouted" first......and perhaps that even is open to interpretation....however the word "scammed" certainly comes to my mind.

I'll bet that over beers that this could be all sorted out.....you're all welcome to my place.......at least those in the Northwest. excELLence, Island, etc., and whoever else wants to show.

my .02 (or perhaps a little more).

Eric Linden
RGruppe member #60 (I think....)
Early S Registry member
PCA member
356 Registry member
Vintage VW club of America member

Ted,

That was, of course, a rhetorical request for enlightenment. By the way, the Brumos thing is really cool. Nicely done.

RickM,

I'm embarassed by most of the comments by non RGruppe members who have never been to an RGruppe event......

Eric

(I'm oughta here till tomorrow am.....yawl enjoy yourselves)

:D spot on, Lothar.

C'mon, Eric; this all started over the pure mean-ness of, "you took my $50US and have been non-responsive for months" :eek:. . .I suppose them is fight'n words! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/boxen.gif :rolleyes:

Certainly, a solid organization would NOT need to blast back about "honor and dignity" from a said affront, steming from the question of "Hey, have I been scammed?"

If the gruppe has "quality" associated with it, then that question could only . . would only, be taken as tongue-in-cheek.

These R-gruppe threads always start and end the same. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066075002.gif

Eric,

Good point. Should be fair to both sides (Are there really two sides here?)

I can also appreicaite when you said that you typed out a response only to cancel it. This has happened to me more than once. On a heated thread like this there should be a timer. When you hit submit you're given ten minutes before it is posted...all the while you have the option to cancel.

I say everyone take you up on your generous offer. We'd be best of buds by the third or fourth.

Eric,

Since I took the lead in your response, let me say: I have been very fair to both sides of this debate. I have not responded to any positive comment about R Gruppe. I take them as valid evidence of the benefits of membership in R Gruppe and acknowledge that.

What I have responded to are the comments made after. Even when Cris admited an honest oversight, it was followed by words to the effect of: I'm glad we found out what a jerk you are before we made the mistake of granting you membership. Was that necessary or mature.

Exc911ence used the word "scammed". So what! So criticize his use of English vocbulary and refer him to a thesaurus for a nicer sounding word. Instead, he is unfit to join the ranks of your beloved R Gruppe. If you guys are so insecure that the rest of us have to tread on eggshells around you, then some growing up is in order.

There are some wonderful people in R Gruppe...and some elsewhere.

Thank you Lother.
Talking clubs on here is like talking politics.
I try to abstain from talking politics with friends and R Gruppe with fellow Pelican heads.
Yesterday.
Who's got some hot 900 series pics?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066077216.jpg

Ted,

Very sweet. I love how these cars plant the rear end under power. I watched the Supercup cars going through turns 9 and 10 at Indy. During that very brief period between those turns they get on the power and the rear end really hunkers down and grips. It's best viewed from the grass right at the fence at turn 9. Great pic.

only wish i knew how to make the vertical slots ? porsche's lightest 900 series tub (around 1730 lbs)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066078093.jpg

Since the topic is "What is Rgruppe", anyone got anymore cool pictures of modified 900 series cars they can share ?

Oh, alright then - twist my arm. '69T, and still looks like and badged as such (interior is stock too - see second pic).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...itu_engine.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...king_north.jpg


I really need to take some new pictures. I've post whored these ones too many times.

Lothar...thanks for the positive.

However...I think that you hit on something just as important as everything that you all think is wrong with us.

You guys almost ALWAYS fixate on the negatives concerning RGruppe, with much more passion and conviction than you do the positives.

And one cannot assume in a thread that anyone (and I do not mean you personally - I mean all of us) is taking the "good" things for granted and accepting them.

Much of the problem with these threads is that there are many positive things said that stack up, one post at a time. But if you read a thread like this one...more NEGATIVE opinions stack up.

To the uninitiated, the RGrupper who has just discovered the thread, there is a definitive imbalance toward the negative, which is going to naturally stir a negative response. You guys would feel the same way, if you found a thread that attacked the character of your club. That's what even the possibilty of being "scammed" attacks.

Then one man's honest response quickly becomes fuel for a barage of generalities about the GRuppe as a whole. That's what happened...plain and simple. Yes, there were positive responses, even fom non-GRuppers, in our defense. But those became hard to see for the fire, or also taken for granted in pursuit of the kill.

I sincerely see why all of these responses fuel one another. But I also sincerely don't understand why it has to occur and why RGruppe always engenders so much angst from the Pelican board. It's as if it's okay for you all to have strong feelings about these cars and your character...but we're not.

Well, we do.

And I full on respect your right to do the same.

I think you all should go up and hang out with Eric. Stand-up guy...AWESOME cars...encyclopedic knowledge of the breed...much like most of you I'm sure. I wish I had a P-Car up in Seattle, so I could fly in and drive with the Pacific North-Westers. There's some really great driving up there.

In case you haven't looked back at the roots of this thread lately...here's a re-cap of PAGE 1 and part of how we got to where we arrived:

Fidalgo911S - innocent querrie.

911PCars - informative.

DougZielke - Reference to TABS - Starting the fire, but in fun.

Exc911ence - honest inquiry, but can't help the inflaming use of the word "scammed" - not a delicate fishing trip. Or was he honestly just pissed off and looking to start a fight, knowing how the Pelican feels about us? He could well have been innocent in that, having no idea just what kind of a thread he was about to unleash. My granddad used to always say, "Know the room before you open your mouth." But hey...it's an honest mistake. It's also an easy one to take the wrong way.

RSupdate - laid back offer to assist from RGrupper # 152

Johncj8989 - GRUPPE B.org plug! Good fun.

LeeH - RGruppe website quote - "sounds cozy." Subtle sarcasm...but let the games begin.

Ted - defensive and self admittedly as "inappropriate" as he thought Exc911ence was.

Thrown_Hammer - Another good GRUPPE B plug.

Jadams1 - SCWDP plug. Recognized building tensions.

Embs - Quotes Ted. Offers Viagra - funny. Then calls him an A$$.

Lothar - turns 2 months into 4 to 6 months (the fish grows) with opinionated sarcasm. No prob. Then calls post "defensive & arrogant" in a very offensive way.

EricMcKenna - A quote accompanied by belly laughter.

Thrown_Hammer - Offers free stickers. Myth of the original timeline is now solidly defined as 6 months. Insinuates that Cris may have found Exc911ence to be a "whiner". GRUPPE B plug.

trj911 - RGruppe quote - then starts his own club - funny.

KurtV - GRUPPE B "Naked Women" plug (1st of many) - funny.

jonT - Californian's should join R Groppe - funny.

Embs - compares the RGruppe to a "foofy country club" that he was "dumb enough to join". Very respectful of we 300 "dumb" members.

Embs - GREAT shot of an ST. Nice!

Exc911ence - derides this 2nd derogatory post from a GRupper. Other words used in post - "animosity", "dick", and "Nazis".

All of this was well before Cris, who the original question should have been asked of personally, ever even knew that this thread existed. (In his defense, Exc911ence said that he had tried unsuccessfully to do so.)

And that's just Page 1.

Now...come on guys...aren't we all a little bit to blame? Can't we all put this one to bed, and focus on those cars and all the good rides they're going to give us in the future?

Respectfully.
Cain

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066081836.jpg

the 69T is a great mix of technology. bet is way powerfull. but the green ST, is that a gas cap (as in centerfill) or is that a drysump cap like the 935's had ?

That's the same, rare LeMans gas tank that David Mollman had on that real RS that had been converted to all factory correct RSR specs out at the Monte-Rey meet.

Pretty cool huh?

I'll see if I can find a photo of the tank inside the car. It's the factory ST that I wrote about in the RGruppe Newsletter.

It’s ST chassis # 911 030 0990. Famed Portuguese rally driver, America Nunnes picked it up at the Porsche Racing Department in Weissach.

The car is fitted with factory racing specifications: a 230 bhp twin-plug engine with 46 mm Webers, a double Magnetti Marelli ignition, a 110 litre competition fuel tank, polyester flares, 10,000 rpm rev counter, Matter roll cage, close ratio tranny with limited slip differential, 7” R-Wheels front with 9” Minilites in the rear, as well as a lightweight crankshaft, carpets, and Recaro buckets.

Nunnes drove the ST directly from the factory to his home country of Portugal, where he immediately entered it in the Tour Auto Portuguese in 1970.

He and the car…together…won.

Cain thanks for an honest perspective.
Seems like a lot of posts but it really is only 4 or 5 guys with repeated R Gruppe negativity here.
Saw this orange 70' ST at the vintage races yesterday.
For sale $170k, said to be the nicest of only 6 70 ST cars remaining?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066083455.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066083474.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066083511.jpg
Nice RSR with a long history of racing.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066083658.jpg

Nice.

Thanks. My dream car is an ST.

I found that tank shot...here it is. Sorry that it's not a complete angle on it.

Cain

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066085128.jpg

Looks like the tank in my old VW bug!

First of all, I would like to apologize for my 'negative contribution' to this thread. When I made the above post (and I admit, I was in a bad mood), it was not intended to be directed to the R Gruppe per se, but was in response to a post about the exclusivity and elitism (which I disdain) of clubs, etc. in general. Being an extremely independent (and sometimes anti-social to a fault) individual, that post just struck a nerve with me. I've read all of the posts both pro & con, and agree wholeheartedly with one point....I bet this thread would NEVER have gotten this far if the principles involved were discussing it over a few beers and talking p-cars! This thread has been the 'low point' of my participation on this site (watching fellow p-car enthusiasts in a pi$$ing contest), and I for one regret my contribution to this thread.

Well I can finally jump in here and say that all of (and I mean all) the RGruppe people I have met have been great.
All of the SCWDP guys I have come across have been great.
Hell if most of the people in the local PCA are top notch.
Pelicanheads that I have come across have been top shelf.
Have I come across some horses arses? Probably,but they are soon wiped from my memory as I dont worry about such things.
The Gruppe B family have been great to me. (they have cool stickers)
So I have no comlaints or negative feedback to dish.
Well one thing does get under my skin a little. Its these people like caindevore, ted and others (you know who you are) who have forced me to buy a larger hard drive to store all this Porsche Porn they just happen to post.

;)

Come to Santa Barbara, give me a little notice and the first round after a great drive is on me!
:D

Accepted!

I was just up there last week. Had an AMAZING plate of Ravioli. I'm sure you know where.

More Porn to come.

Cain

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1066092526.jpg