"Under God..." is this an issue?

[dd74]

I think we should get over it. We have bigger issues than changing around The Pledge of Allegiance that half our kids don't know anyway.

Debating "Under God" is about as ridiculous as adding an amendment to the Constitution outlawing gay marriage.

[ZOA NOM]

Check out the Ten Commandments carved in stone over the entrance to the Supreme Court. God is a part of the Constitution, whether we like it or not.

[jyl]

The words "under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950s by the Eisenhower Administration. This part of the Pledge is hardly "carved in stone" nor does it have anything to do with the Constitution.

In theory, I suppose I would prefer the Pledge not include "under God". I'm an atheist, my wife and kids are Catholic, various of my friends are Jewish, Buddist, and Muslim, and it seems a bit much to have all our kids pledge allegiance to a nation "under God".

That said, as a practical matter I really don't much care whether the Pledge includes a reference to God. As dd74 said, I think we have much bigger issues to deal with. And the fact is that the majority of the country is Christian, so the culture is naturally going to contain plenty of references to Christianity.

[trj911]

One part of this that I don't understand is how this guy can claim he has been caused pain by his daughter reciting the pledge. He has never been married to the girl's mom and the mom has sole custody of the daughter. The girl is not required to say the pledge with her class. How does this cause injury to the father of the girl if the girls does say it? I think he is just looking for some publicity for his legar career!

[RickM]

Quote: "Jewish, Buddist, and Muslim"...... "And the fact is that the majority of the country is Christian, so the culture is naturally going to contain plenty of references to Christianity."

???????????

Christians aren't the only ones that worship "a god".

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by trj911
One part of this that I don't understand is how this guy can claim he has been caused pain by his daughter reciting the pledge. He has never been married to the girl's mom and the mom has sole custody of the daughter. The girl is not required to say the pledge with her class. How does this cause injury to the father of the girl if the girls does say it? I think he is just looking for some publicity for his legar career!

The mother is also a born again Christian. I'm thinking that there's some motivation to piss her off as well. That's my take.
They will one day fish this guy out of a drum.

[jyl]

I don't think many Muslims think that "under God" refers to Allah. Buddhists don't worship a God in the usual sense, certainly not a single god.

Oh, I do question the motivation and damages suffered by the plaintiff in the case. I'd guess the case gets tossed on standing grounds (in other words, the father has no standing to sue).

Originally posted by RickM
Quote: "Jewish, Buddist, and Muslim"...... "And the fact is that the majority of the country is Christian, so the culture is naturally going to contain plenty of references to Christianity."

???????????

Christians aren't the only ones that worship "a god".

[Overpaid Slacker]

It's a publicity stunt. and this guy should be spanked. I can't wait to read whatever Scalia has to say about the matter. I imagine it will be something along the lines of references to God or a higher power do not a "church" make for the purposes of separation of state therefrom. "Church" with all the doctrinal baggage that term carries, regardless of the sect of belief is not equal to "God" or the general acknowledgement of an almighty.

Incidentally, Jews, Christians and Muslims (all "Brothers of the Book") worship the same "God" -- at least doctrinally. Hebrew prophets are Christian prophets and Muslims recognize the Hebrew and Christian prophets, simply adding Muhammad to the end of the list. God, Allah, Yahweh -- it's all semantics.

Why don't the athiest kids have to go to school on all the religious holidays?

JP

[dd74]

Originally posted by VaSteve
The mother is also a born again Christian. I'm thinking that there's some motivation to piss her off as well. That's my take.
They will one day fish this guy out of a drum.

This is the first thing I thought, too. There's no accounting for people who want to air their personal issues out in public. At least he's doing so in a big way.

[pbs911]

There are plenty of other countries to live in. If someone doesn't like the reference to God in the pledge, or anywhere else, they can go live somewhere else. I am pretty sick and tired of people being offended by reference to God. IMO, the current decay of western civilization morals and values is directly influenced by the "need" not to offend people with any references to God. Seperation of church and state has nothing to do the issues surrounding the word "God" in any song, pledge, or writting. Anyone who reads the history of the formation of America should be able to see it was established to prevent the church for governing.

It's a slippery slope. One could reasonably argue that the state grants the church special permits, affords tax benefits, and recognizes religious officials at government functions. Shouldn't all these benefits also be eliminated as well? Why does the FCC "promote" the religious shows by granting air wave access?

And why don't these nut cases reject the US currency? Every bill says "In God We Trust." Until they stop using US currency they are nothing more than hypocrites.

No matter what happens, these their final argument will be at the Pearly Gates before the ultimate Judge

[911ctS]

Originally posted by ZOANAS
Check out the Ten Commandments carved in stone over the entrance to the Supreme Court. God is a part of the Constitution, whether we like it or not.

Yeah, and if someone doesn't like it then they should leave the country! Theres plenty of other F'd up countries out there they can try to reform.

O wait.... not really any other countries take americans in. But we let everyone accross our open a$$ boarders. hmmmm.

[ZOA NOM]

I totally agree with the publicity stunt theory. How much is he hurting the child? Does she understand the issue? Does she now doubt the teachings she gets in church with her mother? Whatever the father's beliefs may be, the mother has custody, and should dictate the concepts her child is exposed to. Hopefully, the judge will throw it out.

As for the fact that this country was founded by Christian, God-fearing people, and that is reflected in every facet of our society, including the Constitution, there should be no doubt that this is the case. We are sliding down a long slope of decadence that is moving the nation further away from morality (try sitting with your 12-year-old daughter and watching MTV for ten minutes), and it is costing us in ways we haven't begun to realize.

[RickM]

Quote: "Born again christians = Psyco's IMO

their usually the ones that screwed up so bad early in life that they now feel the need to influence and preach to everyone else. they can save their BS for someone else."

I think one of our moderators is BA.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by ZOANAS


As for the fact that this country was founded by Christian, God-fearing people, and that is reflected in every facet of our society, including the Constitution, there should be no doubt that this is the case. We are sliding down a long slope of decadence that is moving the nation further away from morality (try sitting with your 12-year-old daughter and watching MTV for ten minutes), and it is costing us in ways we haven't begun to realize.

Were you saying something? I coulnd't pay attention with that avatar in the corner of my eye.

[ZOA NOM]

LOL!

Sorry 'bout that. I suppose I should try a different identity for serious threads.

[Overpaid Slacker]

No! -- just lose the black bar. let's get 5axis in here too, while we're at it.

JP

[ZOA NOM]

Ha! I figure I'm just barely under the radar. Any further, and I might get some heat. Did you try the stop button?

[CamB]

Originally posted by 911ctS
Yeah, and if someone doesn't like it then they should leave the country! Theres plenty of other F'd up countries out there they can try to reform.

O wait.... not really any other countries take americans in. But we let everyone accross our open a$$ boarders. hmmmm.

Well, you let people in. Let them in and work and stay (legally) is a different story. I couldn't emmigrate to the US. Not a chance in hell (well, Green Card lottery is a chance in hell I suppose).

Lots of other countries are more welcoming of immigrants. Actually, thats the wrong words. I'm sure the US is very welcoming. It is easier to emmigrate to lots of other countries.

[dd74]

Originally posted by ZOANAS
Ha! I figure I'm just barely under the radar. Any further, and I might get some heat. Did you try the stop button?

Zonas - what a riot! The "stop" button doesn't work nearly as well as the "quote" button.

[WOODPIE]

The pledge was just fine the way it was before the 1954 addition of "under God", which, as I understand it, was done to fight communism. Keep in mind here, if good citizens are the objective of including these three syllables, it seems they weren't needed when raising our parents or grandparents, aka the greatest generation. I personally don't give a rat's pitootie one way or the other, as I remember my twelve years of public education and saying the pledge each morning as both equally meaningless jumbles of sounds I had to make before I could sit back down and get on with the important business of the day, which was to try sneaking a peek up Darlene Ramsey's skirt.

I think it odd that Judge Antonin Scalia has seen fit to recuse himself from this case, due to previously expressing opinion publicly, but cannot find conflict with his associations with VP Dick Cheney in that upcoming suit.

Aside from the Jerry Springeresque qualities of the "under God" case, I think that as long as the religious conservatives continue to impose their own peculiar beliefs onto the day-to-day aspects of everyone else's life, there has to be some individual or group to push back. This country is basically a Christian one, yes, but there is more than one flavor to Christianity as well, and I wouldn't want to live my life according to just one mortal man's interpretation.

Say, how's things in N. Ireland these days?

Ed