R.I.P. Ronald Reagan

[dd74]

Originally posted by Z-man
No, he is not banned.
-Z.

Did Motion ban you from the board?

[Z-man]

Originally posted by dd74
Did Motion ban you from the board?

Cute dd74. Real cute. Ya know, I haven't used my "banning phaser" in a long time. Now will you just sit still while I take aim...

-Z-man.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by nostatic
So when Clinton dies I assume that we can expect nothing but glowing remarks here?

Damned right! After all, at the same age, I sure didn't have a 21 year old "intern" willing to go down on me. You just have to respect a guy who can accomplish such wonderous things... The sad thing? This IS Clinton's "legacy". At least for the near term, he'll be remembered as the President who thought with his little head....

[fintstone]

I think you guys are actually referring to courts ruling that competent mental patients that had not committed crimes could not be held in institutions against their will. Thus, pretty much all mental patients that were not in jail were released.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by dd74
Hey Todd: what year was that? I'd like to see some information on that. I remember bits and pieces - a tremendous fiasco.

http://www.campaignformentalhealth.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5147&JServSessionIdr011=m8n8bdg621.app2a

http://www.sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

http://www.psych-health.com/mental21.htm

http://sanmateo.networkofcare.org/mh/home/campaign_may6.cfm

http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/article45.htm

[bigrubberjeep]

Originally posted by turbocarrera
Thom is no coward, he had the balls to post an alternate viewpoint. It's not like he sent a letter to Nancy, that would be sick. Several people on this board have "slandered" political figures who are no longer with us - but Thom is the bad guy? Don't single Thom out because he does not deserve it.

I do not mean to single him out, he did that on his own - There is a time and a place for those comments, he picked the wrong one.

It's not a time to prove a point in politics here - He was our president who is now at rest.

Respect him just as any other decent man after death at the very least.

[fintstone]

I give up...are you blaming Reagan because, as Governor, he cut funding in CA in 1967? For the law passed during the Carter admin that that made it difficult nationwide to keep those with mental health problems involuntarily instituionalized?...or the Reagan administration's "attack on human rights" which attempted to put more mental health patients back into custody? And if Reagan's time as Governor is the reason that CA is teaming with nutcases...why didn'nt the subsequent Democratic Governor put the loonies back into the bin or provide more money...whichever is your contention?

[pohsche]

Guys, what the heck happened to freedom of speech. I do not read anybody putting the man down personally. He was the political leader of a country, not a saint. I understand that some of you of different political backgrounds think he did no wrong, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between Thom's feelings and Scott's. He was a public figure, that is all. And as far as you shutting down this thread for views unlike your own Z-man, where do you get off?

Alan Poh
'77 Carrera 3.0

[fintstone]

Big Jeep
You are right. Although we often make comments regarding the deceased contributions to history...doing it during our county's mourning one of it's favorite sons is disgusting and classless. One could at least wait til the flag was raised back to full staff.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by pohsche
Guys, what the heck happened to freedom of speech. I do not read anybody putting the man down personally. He was the political leader of a country, not a saint. I understand that some of you of different political backgrounds think he did no wrong, but the truth probably lies somewhere in between Thom's feelings and Scott's. He was a public figure, that is all. And as far as you shutting down this thread for views unlike your own Z-man, where do you get off?
Alan Poh
'77 Carrera 3.0

pohsche:
Yes, the truth lies somewhere between the two sides of the argument: I will not argue your point on that.

However, as bigrubberjeep stated: there is a time and place for everything. This thread started off as a tribute to a president who died over the weekend. It started to turn into a political debate, as well as personal attacks and flame wars. All that was asked for was a little respect. Keep the thread on topic, that's all.

This post was reported to me: someone was offended by the turn the thread took. (ie: someone clicked on the little 'report this post to a moderator' button.) When someone does this, my first line of action is to try to get the thread back on topic, which is why I posted my first comments here.

I asked that people NOT go on and on about their polical opinions here, in this thread. I did not say for people to stop posting their political views in this forum.

I am not trying to shut down those who believe President Reagan was not a good president: but out of respect for him, I am asking that you curb your political views in this thread. There are people in mourning for our past president. Even if that means nothing for you, a little respect for those who were touched by this man would be appreciated. That is all I am asking for here.

-Zoltan.

[island911]

Originally posted by nostatic
actually what Cliff was referring to was the almost total dismantaling of the mental health system in California. Thousands of mentally ill people were turned out on the streets to fend for themselves with no meds, no followup, no nothing. One of the low points in CA history.

C'mon, it wasn't that bad, was it? I mean, you and Thom did "okay" . . Well, Thom still has those uncontrolled "out-burst diatribes" . . but other than that. ..

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Z-man

This post was reported to me: someone was offended by the turn the thread took. (ie: someone clicked on the little 'report this post to a moderator' button.)

hmm...doesn't the right always complain about too much government?


And Island, I'm on my meds now, so its all good. Although I think I might need to up my dosage...

[island911]

Originally posted by nostatic
. ..
What I guess I don't understand is how the living don't warrant "respect" ....

The living (usually) can defend themselves.

Choosing the time of a mans death to launch a negative campaign is beyond bad taste. Rather pathetic, really.

There will be plenty of time for the revisionist history later. For now, let the surviving family have a little positive reflection.

[speeder]

I agree that this thread is not the place to critique Reagan, simply because a lot of people here admire him. He is a giant hero to Republicans. I never saw him quite that way, but admired him as a great politician. I would not say anything negative about him out of respect for the conservatives on the board, but I've certainly heard a lot of "good riddence" type remarks in passing these last two days. Once again, I do not feel that way about him. I think that he was sort of a father figure to a lot of people, and by all accounts a really nice guy on a personal level.

Whether you guys like it or not, one of Reagan's greatest admirers was and is Clinton. They had a lot in common, and were w/o question the two most skilled and successful politicians of the modern era.

This is a good time to mention that it goes both ways; when people here talk smack about the Kennedys it brings me back to those 'good old days' of Irish Catholic bigotry. I can't help it, it just does. Ironically, Reagan was of some Irish ancestry. Maybe that's why I liked him despite political differences, he had a wonderful, outgoing personality. He knew how to run for office, that's for sure! That aspect of him contributed to his success as a leader, he bamboozled the shorts off of Gorbachev w/ his winning personality and they became friends and had a great working relationship that helped to end the cold war.

[speeder]

Just to add, I heard a really good interview w/ Jerry Brown at the Reagan library today. Larry Elder, (a conservative radio host), was asking him about Reagan's legacy, his influence on him, (Brown), etc...

Jerry's dad Pat Brown lost the governorship to Reagan in a landslide in '66, then Jerry succeeded Reagan as governor in '74. It was fascinating; Brown said that Reagan was "a man of depth", not as strictly conservative as some paint him, but more complicated. Conservative here/liberal there. He said that Reagan was a big outdoorsman, and passed good environmental law in CA. Also, he said that when he (Brown) was governor, he didn't dare raise taxes after seeing what happened to his Dad.

[singpilot]

Hey gang....

I was just over at Rennlist. They are usually even more leftist than we are here. Is why I usually stay out of there.

They had almost an exact same thread, and the exact same result, and none of the wackos over there are the same wackos over here! Same reactions, same cautions.

You guys know I am kidding about the wackos comment.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by singpilot
You guys know I am kidding about the wackos comment.

Hey, I take compliments where I can get them...

[singpilot]

Todd;

Your opinions are definately on the moderate side of the fence. Thanks for always seeing the human side of the politics in here. You always remind me that there are people involved, not just dollars and ideaologies.

[nostatic]

That's what makes this topic tough for a lot of people. There are lots of people who idolized Reagan...he was the consumate politician, and truly believed that he was doing right by his country and his countrymen. It is understandable that there is an outpouring of grief upon his passing, and a desire to celebrate his life.

But there are others who didn't agree with some of the things he did, or some of the things he stood for. And some of those people are as passionately upset with his legacy as the others who are delighted with Reagans accomplishments.

One could argue that his passing is in fact the perfect time to have a serious discussion about the actions and legacy of the man, such that we can not just celebrate his truimphs, but also honestly asses the failures and challenges that went unmet. But I understand the feelings of those that would prefer to take some time to just remember the good, and leave the other for another day.

and damn, if I'm coming off as a moderate, I must be getting soft in my old age...

[lendaddy]

If it's any consolation Nostatic, I never thought of you as a moderate