Another Swift Boat combat memory turns fuzzy.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Somebody actually bothered to look at the records and found another lie by a Swift Boat Veteran who should have known better.

The whole made-up story about there being 'no shooting' when Kerry was first wounded is falling apart:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5751284/

Mulholland · 08-18-2004, 11:26 PM

BlueSkyJaunte · 08-18-2004, 11:42 PM

Um, POW/MIA classification is for keeping the families of POW/MIA soldiers on a higher payscale than KIA.

It is extremely unlikely there are any living POW or MIA in Vietnam.

Moneyguy1 · 08-19-2004, 12:24 AM

Interesting.

I wonder which to believe. Documents that were written at or soon after the events or 35 year old "recollections".

Even if some of the documentation may not be totally accurate, they are at least written while events were "fresh in people's minds".

I asked the quwstion and no takers: Anyone here know precisely what you were doing even five years ago today? I have trouble remembeing who I had lunch with or where last week!!

djmcmath · 05:54 AM

Were you in combat 5 years ago, Bob? Combat tends to stick out in a guy's memory. I may not remember what I did on 19AUG99, but I'll never forget my first time as primary fire control operator for my first inspection. I'll also never forget my first Christmas underway. I have an uncle who was at Normandy. He almost never tells stories, but despite the fact that it happened over 50 years ago, his recollections of those events are crystal clear. Stuff like that tends to get uh ... "seared?" Yes, seared into a guy's memory.

Dan

RoninLB · 08-19-2004, 06:22 AM

Can a liar be trusted to tell the truth, even when he is telling the truth.

It took till last week for the Kerry staff to admit that Kerry lied when he claimed multiple times to have spent Christmas Eve of 1968 in Cambodia.

To add to the package Kerry claimed that the US government was lying about his presence there.

djmcmath · 08-19-2004, 06:52 AM

Kerry was probably right about that part. If he was in Cambodia, the US Gov't wasn't admitting to it. The rest of his Vietnam history is more interesting, and it comes down to a question of credibility.

One the one hand, you have a group of vets who may be getting paid to say mean things about JFK. There's a bunch of them, and they were mostly nearby when the stuff they describe happens. Their story correlates moderately well (but not spectacularly well), like you'd expect 35 year old eyewitness accounts to do. There are others who disagree with them.

On the other hand, you have Kerry, who is known to say absolutely anything his audience wants to hear. His story changes a bit more than most eyewitness accounts do, and generally looks more like the stuff of legends than of history books.

Is he lying? Tough to tell. Again, like Bush's charges, the charges against Kerry are similarly vague. He said one thing, then he said another, and it's almost impossible to demonstrate that he was actually lying. (sigh)

So you end up voting your heart, or your wallet, or whatever, because you've gotten all caught up in whether or not the Swifties were lying, and couldn't remember how the candidate stood on the issues.

Dan

lendaddy · 08-19-2004, 06:56 AM

Oh tech, I would be cautious about putting alot of faith in that one. The entire thing is based on the wording in the citation saying they were under enemy fire, right? Well, I give you two guesses on who wrote the citation

Mulholland · 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djmcmath
Stuff like that tends to get uh ... "seared?" Yes, seared into a guy's memory.

Man, all sKerry has to do is release his records like he SAID HE WOULD...He would reveal those dastardly Vets (who didn't cut and run at first opportunity) for the agenda driven partisans they are (of course Kerry has nothing to gain by lying).

SteveStromberg · 08-19-2004, 07:34 AM

Why wont JFK debate John Oneill right now. That would go along way towards straighting out the truth this matter . Also if JF K would release his DOD records then we could see for our seves what the truth is.
Personlly I think Kerry is a Pussy.
I would like a return to Dueling that would make these Guys tell the truth.Why would you lie if you may die.

island911 · 08-19-2004, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Oh tech, I would be cautious about putting alot of faith in that one. The entire thing is based on the wording in the citation saying they were under enemy fire, right? Well, I give you two guesses on who wrote the citation

My thought exactly.

Furthermore, the article states;

Quote:

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla.

That could mean: "We experienced no "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units"

. ..hey, there's reference to. . .

That article was clearly written to muddy the issue, in hopes people will just throw-up their hands and say "it's all too complicated."

. . oh, and why no hits on the boats; IF they took fire?

Jason Porter · 08-19-2004, 08:09 AM

I think those of us who weren't in combat at some point in our lives have little to say/judge about those that were. Who am I to say he doesn't deserve a medal? The guy went over there and risked his life, period.

He got off the plane, and went into the firestorm, whether he wanted to or not. Some of our current leaders need to be reminded of their deferments, there seeming inability to be drafted, and sent to war.

Personally, I think it's a damn shame when a man who didn't go fight for his country, for whatever reason, to point the finger at the man who did. Such people should try to remember that nobody in a right state of mind actually likes war, and should be appreciative of the risks and sacrifices that those who have fought for us have made.

Personally, I don't particularly trust Bush or Kerry, or anyone else in Washington, as they're almost all too heavily influenced by special interests groups to be of much service to those non-special interest constituents who voted for them.

But I'll be damned if I agree with people who have the nerve to judge someone who made the trip, something a lot of people, like myself didn't do. Be careful calling someone a ******* when you don't have the record to prove that you're not!

Where is Perot when we need him?

SteveStromberg · 08-19-2004, 08:13 AM

Perot is why we are in this mess. And have W 88 ICBM's pointing at us NOW.

Jason Porter · 08-19-2004, 08:14 AM

Do you have any proof of these allegations? Maybe you can cut and paste some references for those of us that are less informed.

SteveStromberg · 08-19-2004, 08:24 AM

Jason you arent older enough to have a thorough knowlege of world events. With out Perot we would of Had GHW as president and The ChiComs would not of gotten the ICBM's from the Tratoir Clinton.
The FBI and CIA would have been able to stop 9-11 before it happened. It was Jamie Garlich in the Clinton Admin who forbid the CIA and FBI from talking to each other about Domestic Terroism.

SteveStromberg · 08-19-2004, 08:25 AM

Look at the Dates on those Cut and paste ALL during the Clinton years

Moneyguy1 · 08-19-2004, 09:17 AM

Suddenly we have an expert.

Dan, no I wasn't. I was long gone from the military scene. However, even seminal moments in one's life fade from reality over time. Facts get confused, recollections take on distortions. Sometimes they are even clouded by emotion, and really seem like the truth. I have had memories that seem to me real, although I would hesitate to swear to them in a court of law. So I am not belittling any of the individuals making statements, just pointing out that the human memory is faulty.

Mulholland · 08-19-2004, 09:36 AM

The WashingtonPost...bastion of unbiased journalism...uses the "freedom of information act" to paint a vague picture to slander the Swift Boat Vets.

Hey WP...Why don't you use the "freedom of information act" and get Kerry's records?

$150,000 invested in Swift Boat Vets...National scandal.

$50 million invested in attacking Bush (between Soros and Moore)...nothing to see here...moveon please.

The difference between the two?...Besides the huge difference in monies spent and the media silence regarding the CFR violations of pro-Kerry 527s...The Swift Boats have been proven right and Kerry has back-peddled on several points including:

1. Widespread attrocities (he backpeddled).
2. He committed attrocities (either a lie or he did).
3. He was in Cambodia (backpeddled).
4. Nixon ordered him into Cambodia (lied).
5. Has his medals on his wall (changed story at least 3 times).

Why all these discrepancies?...Did this disinformation campaign by Kerry get him into political office?...How many Vietnamese and American soldiers died because of anti-American hate-lies by John Kerry?...Isn't John Kerry more a hero for the communists than America?

Mulholland · 08-19-2004, 10:00 AM

Why is it anyone who exercises their right to "free speech" (contrary to Democrats) is demonized and villified and destroyed by Democrats and the media?

fascists...that is why.

National Socialists Workers Party

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Mulholland
Why is it anyone who exercises their right to "free speech" (contrary to Democrats) is demonized and villified and destroyed by Democrats and the media?

http://www.bush2004.com/

http://www.gwbush.com/