spyder questions - Page 3

dd74 · 05-31-2005, 05:02 PM

Joe: what's fabric covered mean? What sort of fabric is used?

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

You should check out Group 44's hanger at Sebring
http://www.southfloridajaguarclub.org/events/sebring02.htm

He also has the last TR6 built and the last TR7... Very cool

BlueSkyJaunte · 05-31-2005, 05:56 PM

Joe,

I want a ride sometime!

Joeaksa · 06-01-2005, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dd74
Joe: what's fabric covered mean? What sort of fabric is used?

DD,

In the old days it was cotton or linen, with a type of dope over it that shrunk the fabric. Problem is that it was really sensative that if you put too much dope on the fabric it could shrink so much that it broke the wooden bits inside, or not enough and the fabric could be loose. The old stuff was also highly flammable and the reason why the old WW1 planes would go down in flames when in combat.

Now almost all the planes use syn fabric that is closest to the fabric that sailboats use for their sails, but very thin. Then a dope is sprayed over them that contains ground up aluminum to keep the sun from getting to the fabric and weakening it. Next is a coat of paint.

All in all its fairly light and a covering usually last 30+ years if the plane is kept in a hangar. Leaving it outside can mean that it has to be recovered after 10 years or so. Its expensive and very labour entensive so something you do not want to do often. Doing fabric is kinda a work of art and people who do it are becoming fewer and fewer as time goes by. I still enjoy doing fabric but have not done it in a while.

Aaron,

Airplane went out of annual inspection yesterday. Need to do its yearly inspection then its legal to fly again. Glad to give you a ride anytime!

JoeA

lendaddy · 06-01-2005, 05:45 AM

Side note:

I have three rolls of airplane fabric tape if anyone wants them. They are pink, purple and blue. I believe it's for the fabric used on ultalite wings (the shrink stuff?).

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

If it's nylon - like kite material - what do you want for it lendaddy... We make kites and sails for boats from the stuff for the kids...

lendaddy · 06-01-2005, 05:57 AM

No charge, just P.M me your address. This stuff is actually pretty heavy though, it's not the shiny thin stuff they use on model planes, rather it's sort of a reinforced fabric. Like I said I am 99% sure it's for the fabric they use on ultralites. But either way, whoever wants it......

lendaddy · 06-01-2005, 05:58 AM

Oh yea, it's really a tape though. Looks like it's used to connect seams. Maybe 2-1/2 -3" wide.

JeremyD · JeremyD's Garage

If it's the tape - then I will leave it for someone with more appropriate applications. Thanks for the offer though...

cantdrv55 · 06-01-2005, 10:29 AM

So any pics yet of the Spyder or 914?

notfarnow · 06-01-2005, 11:26 AM

It was probably a trap... the old lady has kidnapped him and made him her slave. Probably been luring people in for years...

"Must clean out barn: For sale, Schwimmwagen. Needs tires, $1200."

creaturecat · 06-01-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dporsche74
i found my first gyrocopter in a barn , took a few yrs but got it for 500 bucks and restored it and sold it on ebay for 7K

Hillbilly cousin Ron had a barn full of these things (still has one - he was a distributor)- they used to fly it by connecting a rope to a pickup truck and driving down a (black) dirt road - you should have seen how dirty he was when he landed!

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by lendaddy
Oh yea, it's really a tape though. Looks like it's used to connect seams. Maybe 2-1/2 -3" wide.

I'll take it, we are both in Michigan, right?

Here is my glue experiment I started last night. Anyone care to guess which one is going to hold best? The semi-clear plastic is nylon reinforced, it's not the recommended hovercraft fabric - I'm experimenting with materials and skirt shapes. The seams I have from last year are indoor/outdoor double sided carpet tape with aluminum rivets about 3 inches on center.

This is what it's supposed to look like flying 6 inches off the ground.

Rob Channell · 06-01-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Joeaksa
..........Here is my 1947 fabric covered Aeronca on the left.
JoeA

Joe,

Nice looking Aeronca. A local friend of mine has a Champ of similar age(1948 maybe...?). He took me up in it a couple of times. It was great fun. It was so light you could almost land it vertically in a headwind. It was wonderful for those late afternoon flights on calm Summer days.

Tim Hancock · 06-02-2005, 03:56 AM

FWIW, to get your A&P (both ratings at the same time) you have to have an AP/IA sign a letter stating that you have completed 30 months (based on 8hr days 5 days per week) experience working "under the supervision" of an AP. I documented my time building experimental aircraft and helping my AP working on my certified aircraft over about a six year time frame. My IA then agreed to write a carefully worded letter to my local FSDO stating that I did this work under his supervision (I had documented about 32 months worth of work). I was then granted permission to take the written and practical tests which I breezed thru after some intense cramming sessions. I am an engineer by day and so going to an adult school for a couple years just to get an AP was not going to happen. This experience based route worked for me, but you do not want to lie or ask someone else to lie about your experience cause it could come back to bite you later.

After 3 years time as an AP (and two years actively using your ticket), you can opt to take the IA (Inspection Authorization) test which allows you to do annual inspections among other things. I did this 2 yrs ago so now I can "annual" my certified airplanes along with a few others as a side business. Having these ratings lowers my cost of ownership plus provides a good back-up should I ever lose or tire of my day job, but it took a long time to get to this point.

Joeaksa · 06-02-2005, 05:34 AM

Tim is correct on the way to accomplish this but if you just want one license (either airframe or engine) you can do this with 18 months of experience.

Many mechanics get their airframe ticket first then work on getting the engine rating. This way they can still work on or restore a plane legally and sign it off themselves.

Rob, they are a lot of fun and reasonable on operating costs. We now have STC's for car gas in many of the older airplanes, which cuts the costs in half a lot of the time and thats a big deal!

Now, where are the photos of the car in the barn?????

Joe A

dporsche74 · 06-02-2005, 05:45 AM

i have been lookin for this hot experimental in peices

BlueSkyJaunte · 06-02-2005, 06:12 AM

Ahh....the Quickie.... So goofy lookin'!

M.D. Holloway · 06-02-2005, 01:25 PM

kach22i - thats pretty cool!

You could get an adhesives company to do some real application testing for you to understand the lap-shear and peel strgnth of the various adhesives. It's actually pretty easy - cotact the applications labs at 3-M or Lord or ITW or even Loctite (Henkle) and say you are so and so from this and that and you will be sending in some subrates for adhesion testing with their adheisve they would recommend. They will want to know the typ of plastic and the cure conditions and maybe even the application but they will do the testing and supply the results that will be a bit more controlled than what you are doing (but what you are doing is way cool!).

If you don't want to be bothered, send me the material and lets talk about the application and I will do it for you.

350HP930 · 06-02-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim Hancock
FWIW, to get your A&P (both ratings at the same time) you have to have an AP/IA sign a letter stating that you have completed 30 months (based on 8hr days 5 days per week) experience working "under the supervision" of an AP. I documented my time building experimental aircraft and helping my AP working on my certified aircraft over about a six year time frame. My IA then agreed to write a carefully worded letter to my local FSDO stating that I did this work under his supervision (I had documented about 32 months worth of work). I was then granted permission to take the written and practical tests which I breezed thru after some intense cramming sessions. I am an engineer by day and so going to an adult school for a couple years just to get an AP was not going to happen. This experience based route worked for me, but you do not want to lie or ask someone else to lie about your experience cause it could come back to bite you later.

After 3 years time as an AP (and two years actively using your ticket), you can opt to take the IA (Inspection Authorization) test which allows you to do annual inspections among other things. I did this 2 yrs ago so now I can "annual" my certified airplanes along with a few others as a side business. Having these ratings lowers my cost of ownership plus provides a good back-up should I ever lose or tire of my day job, but it took a long time to get to this point.

Very well put. After doing my research I discovered that it would take me years of additional documented hands on experience since like you my attending a trade school is not an option. If I put any time and money into additional schooling it will be for a masters or doctorate, not an FAA cert.

I checked around to see if there were any good machinist or tech jobs in the area that had a decent paying work study program but no such luck. It looks like general aviation is still on hard times even a decade after I graduated with my BSAE.

If I have a chance to help with someone's aircraft project I now know to what kind of documentation to get since that's now my plan B for getting an A&P.