When was the last time the “right” was right?

[Moneyguy1]

Colonel Flagg had all the answers and saw a commie under every tree.

As far as fictional goes remember "History is fiction written by the victors" Nothing more, nothig less.

Still, you do not address the issues, do you?

Sheesh.

Please feel free to use sarcasm as required.

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by fintstone
Once again I am shocked that the average joe accountant or used car salesman thinks he has a better idea about what is happening in the military/Iraq than the guys who do it for a living. Maybe you should apply for a job with the Dept of Defense. What you really mean is that my opinons do not match your opinions...and as such...are wrong. I have 26 years of recent active duty, am an officer in the reserve and currently work for DoD...so clearly guys who spent a couple of years in the military 30 years ago would know more about the current situation than I would..LOL. I see the intel...I saw our actual "planning documents" for our Iraq campaign. (no, it did not resemble anything you guys post on the internet). I have a major who works for me who was a "weapons inspector." I work daily developing tactics, techniques and procedures with military folks who have spent most of the last couple of years on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Apparently you guys feel you are somehow better informed because you can find some website with various conspiracy theories, etc...written by someone who has never left LA, or San Francisco..or are terrorists themselves..LOL At best, they are "in country" filing reports from the Palestine Hotel. Face it, most of the people that really know the score do not have anti-war websites....

BRAVO! BRAVO!

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Ya know, fint..there was a senator on tv not too long ago with the same mindset:

"I know more than you but I can't tell you".

The most feared words in the English language: "Trust me. I know what I'm doing".

Please do not denigrate those who served 30 or more years ago and came home to ridicule and rotten eggs. There is a BIG difference between planning safely behind the lines and actually observing first hand what is going on. Heck, as far as any war goes, even Generals cannot agree on proper action (even now). And, as a member of the armed forces, you do (or did) take your orders from superiors that may or may not have known what was going on. The "good old biy's club rules even in the military. You say you have information that does not match what others post. That may be true, but like I have said so many times, there is another unprovable. We are asked to "take your word" that your cites are superior.

If what you say is true, I respect the service you have performed. But even that is an unprovable.

I did not say that..and you know I didn't. I did not disparge anyone's service...trashing ones country or military is a liberal thing, remember? On the other hand, having served for most of the last 30 years, I can definitely tell you that things are not much like they were when I first came in the service as an E-1. I don't ask you to "trust me," or take anything on faith...I never post anything that is not easily availble or obvious to even the most casual observer. I cannot...and stay out of prison. Clearly a military person who has any firsthand knowledge that is not currently available from other sources cannot divulge it here. It just seems odd to me that folks on this BBS post that "my information is cosistently the most wrong on this bbs" when they are discussing areas where I have over 30 years current experience and they have squat....I am only pointing out the obvious because I am tired of being insulted. It is funny how anyone who disagrees with liberals are portrayed as liars or as stupid...from the President...down to the lowliest GI. If anything the liberals posted here were actually even close to true, the war and the administration would not have such strong support from the military..who are there and see it firsthand.
Face it, experience is important...even in sorting through info and BS on the web. If your barber told you about a great info source about Porsches and Bruce Anderson.(or Wayne for that matter) told you it was hogwash and recommended another as more correct...which would you choose?
If you are questioning my military service...or even what I do now...that is easily proven. It is really no big deal...it is just what I do. I cannot understand why you would question it...I do not question your service in the Coast Guard. In fact, if you go back far enough, you would find that 150HP930 did the same a while back and I posted the documents proving my service....Although he had never been the service...he felt that since I did not agree with him that I clearly must be lying about what I did for a living. You imply the same. What is it about liberals that makes them think that anyone who does not agree with an opinion they somehow formed with zero experience and little more information is clearly a liar and charlatan?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Colonel Flagg had all the answers and saw a commie under every tree.

As far as fictional goes remember "History is fiction written by the victors" Nothing more, nothig less.

Still, you do not address the issues, do you?

Sheesh.

Please feel free to use sarcasm as required.

Which issues?

[techweenie]

Hahahahahaha!

If there was no Fint, we'd have to make him up. He's in Vegas(?) and claiming everything everyone else posts is sourced from people who aren't in the theater of combat? Writing comedy is hard for most folks.

Fint, as the source of so much misinformation on Pelican, are we to just roll over and on your sayso, assume that you know about things that people in the administration, people in foreign governments, and reporters "on the ground" in the middle east don't?

Instead of inventing imaginary 'wacko sites' on the internet, why don't you simply take one of the statements of our 'lefties' and tell us what's wrong with it?

I've already made a short list of the wrong things the 'right' has postulated.

Oh, and if you even care about what the left said before the Iraq invasion, here's a page you can look at:

http://elandslide.org/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=iraq

Excerpt:
"7. The US does not have the capability to occupy Iraq and run a democratic government. Even in Afghanistan, the US-imposed government has no control outside of Kabul, despite large numbers of US and other allied troops. This undemocratic government has been paralyzed by assassinations by rival warlords. Moreover, the heroin industry - which is so devastating to the US - has resumed production."

[fintstone]

First of all, I am not in Vegas. Did you think the "location" thingy changes every time you leave town or the country? Sheesh!
The US does not wish to "run" a democratic government in Iraq. It expects Iraq to elect and run it's own government...as it is doing. You guys clearly don't even know the maeaning of democracy. The Afghan govt seems to be doing quite well in my estimation...what do you expect with such a short period as a democracy...even the US had growing pains as did post WW II Europe and Japan. Is there no common sense on the left?

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Byron: Just curious:

Have you served your country? And, if not, would you if called upon like many of us here have done? I agree with CRH911S.

Seems as if the most warlike are those who never served. Of course, I could be wrong....

Ronin..I think I get your point, but I am not sure.

When Desert Storm stared, I went to sign up, now, I had a good job, been to college and a nice home & Porsche. I was diagnosed with asthma, I hadn't had it as a child, I grew into it in my mid Y's, so I was rejected. I tried to join the reserves for this conflict, but the medical condition kept me out, that and I'll be 40 this year. Now I'm making a lot more money than I was in 1990, but my union democrat father taught me right from wrong. Many of my closest friends serve/served this country, many made it their career, from W.W.II, Korea, Nam on, that is were I get my impute from, some enlisted to a retired Pentagon Col. From single hitches to 40 years, those are the people I listen too. From people who have been there, up front, on the stage, those are the people I listen too. One of my best friends, a retired officer, has joined the reserves BTW, thanks for your service in the CG.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by fintstone
Is there no common sense on the left?

You have to ask??

[fintstone]

Originally posted by techweenie
''Instead of inventing imaginary 'wacko sites' on the internet, why don't you simply take one of the statements of our 'lefties' and tell us what's wrong with it?

I've already made a short list of the wrong things the 'right' has postulated.

Oh, and if you even care about what the left said before the Iraq invasion, here's a page you can look at:

http://elandslide.org/elandslide/petition.cfm?campaign=iraq
..

LOL!!! http://elandslide.org/ is one of the biggest nutball sites that I have ever seen. Funny that any rational person would quote a site that claims that our government knew 911 was coming and intentionally allowed/aided the terrorists as one to prove that the left's "wacko sites" are somehow imaginary....talk about tinfoil hats! No wonder you guys are so screwed up if you believe thast sites like that are accurate. LMAO!

[RoninLB]

Much Lib rantings come from a group in the process of being displaced. 'Nam started as a Lib Dem war. When they turned against it they justified the assertions as a higher morality. Military force was deemed immoral and American power was immoral. Bush attempting to assert American values as universal values challenges the Libs self image. They are in a consrant state of denial that Iraq and Afghan might succeed.

Currently the Rep's are watching the Dem Party's takeover by the far left. The prob is that the Dem's have no policy ideas other than bigger gov't. Their basic beliefs that Washington can endlessly improve people's lives has lost its appeal. Basically the Dem's is unable to cope with demands from its frustrated voters. The Dem voter base is being realigned into the Rep party. If this realignment of the voters is permanent history might consider the 2004 election as consolidating this realignment.

[Moneyguy1]

Racer: At least you tried. For that I am grateful.

ROnin: Do you really believe paragraph 1? As to paragraph 2, both parties have morphed over the years and to Republicans and Democrats from the 60s, they would not believe what has happened.

fint: "so clearly guys who spent a couple of years in the military 30 years ago would know more about the situation than I do..LOL"

At least you are consistent. And scary. AS far as issues, the "I know more than you do" mantra is unacceptable as a response. It may be true, but it is a cop-out because like so many of your comments, it can neither be proven nor disproven.

Cheers to all. Try to remember that most of us here (posters from other countries excepted, of course) are Americans and very interested in the survival of the country.

But, seems as if there is no room in your mind for people like myself who question the motives of both sides. Strangely, personal rants from the left seem a bit less strident overall and I wonder why this is so.
There is a big difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Racer: At least you tried. For that I am grateful.

fint: "so clearly guys who spent a couple of years in the military 30 years ago would know more about the situation than I do..LOL"


There is a big difference between disagreeing and being disagreeable.

Thanks Money, and one thing about 30 guy, many still have friends in high places, so intel can still be very good.

Happy & safe 4th guys

[techweenie]

Fint, do you ever answer the question directed to you?

You asked if the 'left' had anticipated the problems in Iraq. I found a vintage post and directed you to it, and instead of saying "oh, well I guess some on the left foresaw some of the problems in Iraq," you decide to explore the site (which is more than I did) and completely ignore the reason I pointed you there.

Who cares what else is on the site? I can play the same game with everything you post -- if you ever post any factual backup whatsoever.

You asked for contemporaneous commentary from the 'left' and I sent you to it. Can you perhaps admit you were wrong? Once?

[techweenie]

Originally posted by fintstone
First of all, I am not in Vegas. Did you think the "location" thingy changes every time you leave town or the country? Sheesh!
The US does not wish to "run" a democratic government in Iraq. It expects Iraq to elect and run it's own government...as it is doing. You guys clearly don't even know the maeaning of democracy. The Afghan govt seems to be doing quite well in my estimation...what do you expect with such a short period as a democracy...even the US had growing pains as did post WW II Europe and Japan. Is there no common sense on the left?

You're right fint. You say you are in Vegas, then you say you arent' and laugh at anyone who believed what you said. Whatever.

That's pretty consistent.

Fint, the meaning of democracy is being spelled out for you in Iran. And in Lebanon. Here's a bulletin: "Democracy" doesn't mean 'friendly to the West.' Democracy means people get the government they want, and in these countries, that is anti-western values.

Afghanistan is far from a fully-realized democracy, with a hand-picked oil industry consultant running the government, after a troubled election, and with 85% of the country outside the control of that government.

Karzai, in fact, has played a key role in the huge increase in opium production in Afghanistan. But that's all good, right?

We'll see what happens in September...

Meantime, here's a question for you: how many U.S. troops died last Tuesday in Afghanistan, and what group is claiming 'credit' for their deaths?

[CRH911S]

Who says they will use a port, BTW, I agree with you about Miami, it hasn't been an American city since the 80s.

Byron, what kind of city is it?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by techweenie
You're right fint. You say you are in Vegas, then you say you arent' and laugh at anyone who believed what you said. Whatever.
...

That is pretty dishonest! But not unexpected. Once again you attempt to smear me by misstating/misquoting me. If I say that I am in Vegas...or anywhere else for that matter....it doesn't mean that if I say I am somewhere else a week, a month, or a year later that I misled anyone. Do I need to ask your permission to travel?...and, in-fact....I actually posted on this BBS that I was out of the country...LOL.....I was just at the SF airport returning from my overseas deployment and lots of folks were traveling to other places. Don't you ever leave Fantasy Island?

[RoninLB]

US Public Hospital Casuality Count

90,000 people die of hospital-acquired infections annually. More than half of these deaths may be preventable.

180,000 elderly outpatients die or are seriously injured by drug toxicity. Half of these incidents may be preventable.

7,000 patients die from drug errors each year.

554 errors in four months were found at one six bed intensive care unit; 147 were potentially serious or life-threatening.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by fintstone
That is pretty dishonest! But not unexpected. Once again you attempt to smear me by misstating/misquoting me. If I say that I am in Vegas...or anywhere else for that matter....it doesn't mean that if I say I am somewhere else a week, a month, or a year later that I misled anyone. Do I need to ask your permission to travel?...and, in-fact....I actually posted on this BBS that I was out of the country...LOL.....I was just at the SF airport returning from my overseas deployment and lots of folks were traveling to other places. Don't you ever leave Fantasy Island?

Fint, is there a point to your self-centered ramblings?

Do you want to avoid -- once again -- responding to any question about your misstatements?

I thought it was funny that you reposted the exact same thing a second time in another thread, as if an opinion piece posted on NewsMax was even slightly legitimate. You didn't deal at all with the misstatements in that piece.

Of course, you never respond when your misstatements are pointed out. You change the subject.

Oddly enough, that kind of behavior exactly mirrors what Rumsfeld & Co. are doing in the middle east.

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by CRH911S


Byron, what kind of city is it?

If English is your 1st language, you are treated like crap, if you go into a fast food restaurant and don't speak spanish, you won't get served, if someone ask you a question and you don't know what they are saying because they don't speak English, they get very pissed off and go off on you (this happened to a friend's wife a few months ago, and she is one of the sweetest people to walk the face of the earth) That is just one reason that Miami isn't really an American city any more. A long running joke in FL. is when the last American leaves Miami, don't forget the flag.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by fintstone
Once again I am shocked that the average joe accountant or used car salesman thinks he has a better idea about what is happening in the military/Iraq than the guys who do it for a living. Maybe you should apply for a job with the Dept of Defense. I see the intel...I saw our actual "planning documents" for our Iraq campaign. I have a major who works for me who was a "weapons inspector." I work daily developing tactics, techniques and procedures with military folks who have spent most of the last couple of years on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. Apparently you guys feel you are somehow better informed because you can find some website

LOL, Yeah. You are the same guy that said we successfully had a "hit to kill" anti-missle test back in March and you qoted some defense article to prove it, which it didn't and it wasn't.
Next time I see my CIA friend who is over there, I'll get some real skinny. You just have opinions.