Red Cross Apparently Barred from Superdome by LA gvmt!

[cool_chick]

Plus that pesky thing that everyone is trying to ignore, the fact that FEMA IS NOT A FIRST RESPONDER, and their published response time to a major disaster is 72-96 hours, which they arguably met.

"arguably." But I find it incredulous that an emergency management group would have a service level agreement which doesn't even meet needs to address an emergency. 72-96 response time isn't managing an emergency, that's when the emergency's usually over.

I hope Bush dictates the change of that ridiculous service level agreemnt.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Agreed however do not stop with Carter and please include the people of NO and state of Louisana. The city and state is also partially responsible for the upkeep of the infrastructure around the city not just the govt in DC.

JA

Joe, I don't think that's true. I honestly think that all falls under Army Corps.

[emcon5]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Bush cut funding, and Clinton increased funding, but this is how it really is:

Army Corps: I need 40 million dollars
Bush: I'll give you 3 million dollars
Congress: I'll give you 3.6 million, here you go

Army Corps: I need 40 million dollars
Clinton: I'll give you 6 million
Congress: I'll give you 6.2, see we were increased

Just curious, where are you getting those numbers?

The Washington Post article I linked earlier doesn't give actual numbers, but claims the Bush administration gave more than the Clinton:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/07/AR2005090702462.html

But overall, the Bush administration's funding requests for the key New Orleans flood-control projects for the past five years were slightly higher than the Clinton administration's for its past five years. Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the chief of the Corps, has said that in any event, more money would not have prevented the drowning of the city, since its levees were designed to protect against a Category 3 storm, and the levees that failed were already completed projects. Strock has also said that the marsh-restoration project would not have done much to diminish Katrina's storm surge, which passed east of the coastal wetlands.

And your post doesn't describe the government doing the physical evacuation. Usually, people evacuate on their own, this may be a standard for the people to evacuate themselves, which is usually what happens.

One of the last ones did:

B. Office of Emergency Preparedness

* Assist ESF-8, Health and Medical, in the evacuation of persons with special needs, nursing home, and hospital patients in accordance with established procedures.

There is also this, (again, had you bothered to read the plan)

From PART 2: EVACUATION, II. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

Joe, I don't think that's true. I honestly think that all falls under Army Corps.

True, but which projects get funded comes from Congress. Read the Washington Post article, it explains a lot of how things work (Or don't work, as it were) with ACoE and funding.

Tom

[cool_chick]

Emcom, the figures were an illustration of how it's been for the last 40 years for the Army Corps. An example.

I'm glad Bush gave slightly more (I heard cut, you heard more, who cares), my example still demonstrates how dumb "more" or "less" sounds fingerpointing "na na mine gave more, yours gave less" stuff, when lookng at the whole picture of "it was all inadequate." 40 years inadequate.


And re: this:

B. Office of Emergency Preparedness

* Assist ESF-8, Health and Medical, in the evacuation of persons with special needs, nursing home, and hospital patients in accordance with established procedures.

From PART 2: EVACUATION, II. CONCEPT OF OPERATIONS

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

The mayor already stated he used the buses to take people to the superdome, if he is telling the truth, this fulfills this section of the plan. You have no proof this was not fulfilled at this time...certainly not to completion, but is the reason due to inability based on not having enough time, given this thing formed and came FAST??????

Again, it's all speculation on your part as we won't know what was neglect and what was inability until the investigation is completed.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Joe, I don't think that's true. I honestly think that all falls under Army Corps.

Could be, am not sure of the chain of command on this.

JA

[island911]

HELLO- Big picture here. . ..

The place is _BELOW sea level.

Even with a slow moving Cat-3, those places will fill-up like a fish-bowl. Pumps just can't keep up with Mother Nature.

This is crazy. Just how much money do you pour into keeping a rotted ship afloat?

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Joeaksa
Could be, am not sure of the chain of command on this.

JA

And therein lies the problem. There are 14 Federal agencies involved in the releif effort.

This guy has been in charge since the day before Kartrina hit:

http://www.dod.gov/transcripts/2005/tr20050901-3843.html

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by island911
HELLO- Big picture here. . ..

The place is _BELOW sea level.

Even with a slow moving Cat-3, those places will fill -up like a fish-bowl. Pumps just can't keep up with Mother Nature.

This is crazy. Just how much money do you pour into keeping a rotted ship afloat?

Over 200 years now, and probably at least 200 years into the future

It has:

1. the largest seaport. The best location for same.
2. they refine tons of our oil
3. they extract tons of our oil
4. they have tons of our oil reserves down below.
5. history. I'm sorry, but it does have history down there

N.O. isn't only about looting, poverty and beer. N.O. is key to the United States in general.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by island911
HELLO- Big picture here. . ..

The place is _BELOW sea level.

Even with a slow moving Cat-3, those places will fill-up like a fish-bowl. Pumps just can't keep up with Mother Nature.

This is crazy. Just how much money do you pour into keeping a rotted ship afloat?

Not that much if you do it right, once. Ask the people of Holland.

[island911]

I'm not suggesting doing away with the place. Much of New Orleans is above sea level, and quite worthwile.

Other states deny building in various locations, for lesser reasons. Yet N.O. figures that they ought to get truckloads of money, to offset poor planning. (lets not even talk about how that money gets redirected)

[island911]

Originally posted by techweenie
Not that much if you do it right, once. Ask the people of Holland.

Ah yes. I've been wondering when Holland would come up.

Tell me tech, do you think it wise for the US to have a major city protected from a huge destructive energy-wall of water by nothing more than a dirt dike?

edit:

fwiw, Much military effort has gone in to how to take out a Damn. --it ain't easy. A dirt dike, OTOH . . I'll just say it's easy. . . easier than taking out a building w/ a box cutter.

But Bush cut the funding for the dykes [yes, that's what he said].

-and he hates black people.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by island911
Ah yes. I've been wondering when Holland would come up.

Tell me tech, do you think it wise for the US to have a major city protected from a huge distructive energy-wall of water by nothing more than a dirt dike?

Well, you have to make a cost/benefit analysis. Let's run what numbers we can: value of NO property vs. cost of project. We already have a fair idea of what it cost to *not* do it right -- tens of billions in direct impact and as much as a 1/2 point of GDP growth; 400,000 jobs, etc.

Would it cost as much as attacking Iraq? Going to the moon? What do we compare it with?

[island911]

hmmm. Think of the jobs that could be had in Alaska . . . if only they had an artificial sun for the winter months. -- tens of billions in direct impact and as much as a 1/2 point of GDP growth; 400,000 jobs, etc.

Would it cost as much as attacking Iraq? Going to the moon? What do we compare it with?

[island911]

Seriously tech, are you going to ignore the terorist threat? Or are you proposing a giant system of concrete damns? (which would sink)

[island911]

Paging Mr Weenie . . Mr tecweenie...

You have an unanswered message at the courtesy phone.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by island911
Paging Mr Weenie . . Mr tecweenie...

You have an unanswered message at the courtesy phone.

Jeez, trying to get some work done here. What was the question?

I really don't understand 'are you going to ignore the terrorist threat?' in this context. Could you explain what it has to do with dykes (who Arnold now says can't marry, and are therefore less of a threat to red staters...)?

[island911]

ah. I edited (added specific to) an earier post (likely while you were posting.

Any way, again

Originally posted by island911
Ah yes. I've been wondering when Holland would come up.

Tell me tech, do you think it wise for the US to have a major city protected from a huge destructive energy-wall of water by nothing more than a dirt dike?

edit:

fwiw, Much military effort has gone in to how to take out a Damn. --it ain't easy. A dirt dike, OTOH . . I'll just say it's easy. . . easier than taking out a building w/ a box cutter.

[aways]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Are you saying they implemented in the past but not this time? What was implemented before but not now? What was implemented before? Why was it not not now? Maybe time?

I do know the superdome was implemented before. With success. I've heard from friends I know down there this is what they've done in these situations.

Again, speculation as to the "negligence" as opposed to potential inability (to get everyone completely out, we have a time factor here and something never done before). MAybe this "protocol" didn't take into account a storm that initially developed less than 5 days before? Maybe this "protocol" never anticipates the devastation larger than anything this country has ever seen before in it's time here and a displacement larger than any time since the civil war?

And personally, I"m sick of partisan crap and 'lefties" "righties" this what we've just witnessed, if this isn't finally a wakeup call to us, nothing will be. We're hopeless as a people anymore.

This whole "controversy" is not that complicated...
The plan:
http://www.cityofno.com/portal.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
They DIDN'T implement it...!

[fintstone]

Originally posted by techweenie
Not that much if you do it right, once. Ask the people of Holland.

Yes, and while you are at it....ask them how many Cat 4 or 5 hurricanes they have had....duh