Blanco takes 'responsibility' for problems in Katrina response

[cool_chick]

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Echoing the words of President Bush a day earlier, Gov. Kathleen took responsibility Wednesday for failures and missteps in the immediate response to Hurricane Katrina and pledged a united effort to rebuild New Orleans and the surrounding parishes ravaged by the storm.


http://www.nola.com/newsflash/topstories/index.ssf?/base/news-19/1126743841129632.xml&storylist=

[lendaddy]

In further news, The governor also stated that Bears **** in the woods and water is wet...

Developing...........

[jyl]

Here is an interesting story about what happened at the Convention Center.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/14/AR2005091402655.html

There were 250 Louisiana National Guard troops stationed at the center for most of the week following the hurricane. They made no effort to control the violence. The idea never crossed their minds.

"By Tuesday night, a contingent of at least 250 Louisiana National Guard troops was hunkered down in Hall A, off Julia Street at the northern end of the building.

The armed troops, from at least two engineering battalions -- the 769th and 527th -- had been assigned to set up a base at the center to prepare for debris removal and road clearing, as well as rescue and security. But they had enough food and water only for themselves and had no immediate orders to provide assistance or security for the thousands of evacuees in their midst, according to interviews with a dozen enlisted soldiers and officers.

Instead, as the danger level grew, they felt they must first protect themselves.

"There was way too many of them and way too few of us," said Master Sgt. Chad Anderson, 37. "Since we couldn't help them, it was best to avoid them. They had a mob, crazy mentality."

Whenever the soldiers left the center on missions, they drove west on Julia Street and away from the throngs of people begging for food and water along Convention Center Boulevard. "When they saw the soldiers, they'd think, 'That's food,' " said Sgt. Karla Spillers, 26. "We didn't have any for them. We had to feed our own people."

Spillers said she felt pain at the knowledge that teenage girls were wandering around the center, alone, knowing they were possible prey.

"There were prisoners, mobsters, gangs" in there, she said.

Almost as soon as they arrived, Guard commanders became concerned enough about the safety of their troops that they ordered more weapons and ammunition. On Wednesday night, there was kicking and banging on the doors to Hall A, where the guardsmen were. "They were trying to break the doors and get us," said Anderson. "They knew we were there."

"About 9 that night, we started barricading the doors," said Staff Sgt. Bryan Lowery, a supply sergeant with the 527th battalion.

Guardsmen parked at least three dump trucks next to the doors to block them, and Lowery began dispensing weapons and ammunition.

"It scared me," Spillers recalled. "Everyone went to get their weapons from the backs of the trucks."

That night, Guard commanders figured the convention center was untenable as a staging base. And they, too, left the center despite what Fore said were his pleas to stay.

"We were told they couldn't help us unless the order came down from the top, from a lot of people," Fore said. "The only time they partnered with us was when there were gunshots in the area where they were actually staying. They protected themselves."

Maj. Keith Waddell, commander of the 769th Engineer Battalion, said his unit was never asked to quell the violence at the convention center. "The idea of helping with the convention center never came up," he said. "We were just preparing ourselves for the next mission."

Waddell said he believes that, if so ordered, the Louisiana Guard forces present would have been adequate to get the center under control.

"I feel confident we could have controlled it, with the numbers we had," Waddell said.

But senior commanders indicated they had ruled out that possibility. Col. Stephen C. Dabadie, chief of staff of the Louisiana National Guard, said the engineer units were "not designed to secure the convention center." "

The New Orleans police also sent in a SWAT team to extract two white people, the wife and a friend of a Jefferson Parish police officer. Otherwise, the police did not intervene at the center.

"That same day, the New Orleans police made a dramatic entrance. Sgt. Hans Ganthier and 12 other New Orleans SWAT team members entered the center, M-4 commando rifles at the ready. Prayers had been answered -- only it was a rescue mission of a different purpose.

A Jefferson Parish police deputy had appealed to SWAT team Capt. Jeff Winn for help in bringing out his wife and a female relative from the center. "He knew they were there and was hearing nightmarish stories," said Ganthier, who declined to identify the officer for security reasons.

Winn approved the mission.

When the SWAT team entered at 11 a.m., the Jefferson Parish officer called out his wife's name. She heard him, and along with the relative rushed to his side. The SWAT team put the women in the middle of the team, then backed out the door.

Once it became clear that the SWAT team had come with the single goal of rescuing two white women, anger exploded.

"Racists!" one man cried out.

"Some people were upset we weren't rescuing them," said Ganthier. "It's hard to leave people behind like that, but we were aiding an officer." "

[RallyJon]

I think more and more stories will come out exposing similar "there was nothing we could do" BS from law enforcement and national guard troops.

I heard a funny interview on NPR with the prosecutor who's going after the owners of that senior center. The interviewer asked the prosecutor about prosecuting the police who deserted, suggesting that they, too, had abandoned their responsibility and allowed the deaths of many people. LOL--you should have heard the prosecutor hem and haw and backpedal. I guess the "old boy" corruption really is pervasive down there.

[legion]

Don't stories of National Guard troops (under the control of the governor) and police officers (under the control of the mayor) point to a lack of appropriate orders coming from the governor and mayor?

During 9/11 in New York, no one doubted or questioned that Rudy was in charge. He put the police in the right spots, he gave the appropriate orders, and despite a horrible tragedy, law and order remained intact.

[competentone]

Originally posted by jyl
Here is an interesting story about what happened at the Convention Center.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/14/AR2005091402655.html

There were 250 Louisiana National Guard troops stationed at the center for most of the week following the hurricane. They made no effort to control the violence...[/i]

It is really interesting to watch the slant the different media sources will give to a story.

I can imagine what sort of story the Washington Post would have written if the Police or National Guard had gone in and established order -- no doubt they would have had to shoot a few people. I can imagine the complaints about that!

The soldiers and police were in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" position -- at least in certain media's portrayal of them.

[BGCarrera32]

That story solidifies my opinion that 90% of the residents people down there have no common sense and the other 10% don't have very much.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by legion
Don't stories of National Guard troops (under the control of the governor) and police officers (under the control of the mayor) point to a lack of appropriate orders coming from the governor and mayor?

During 9/11 in New York, no one doubted or questioned that Rudy was in charge. He put the police in the right spots, he gave the appropriate orders, and despite a horrible tragedy, law and order remained intact.

Good points, legion. By the time the feds came into NYC on 9/11, Rudy had the situation under control. Granted, it was a vastly different type of disaster and it was contained in a much smaller area. But as soon as the tragedy occurred, the mayor of NYC had sprung into action and got the ball rolling. I don't think the same thing happened in NO.

I wonder if the mayor of NO will also step up to the plate and share some of the burden of responsibility.

While the government on ALL levels could have handled this disaster better, I firmly believe that it is the LOCAL government that needs the most involvement, organization and responsibility in such crisis. Thus, I feel that they are to blame the most for the lack of direction and organization.

Don't get me wrong - the feds need to be there with their infrastructure (money, supplies...etc), but the local government should be able to act quicker and be more accurate in their assessment of the situation.

For example: the local NO government should have used the school buses to help evacuate those who could not leave NO on their own. Food and other supplies should have been made ready. The local NO government should have had contingency plans in place in case any of the levees were compromised. LOCAL government dropped the ball first and foremost, IMHO.

-Z-man.

[techweenie]

Originally posted by BGCarrera32
That story solidifies my opinion that 90% of the residents people down there have no common sense and the other 10% don't have very much.

Well, the people in the convention center were hardly representative. They were the ones who decided at the last possible minute to leave their homes. By then, if they didnt' possess water and food, there was none to be found. The ohter evacuation centers were stocked. Why the convention center wasn't is a question that has yet to be answered.

[JonT]

Regarding the school buses I heard Ray Nagin said that he wanted Greyhound buses for his people and since they were not brought in the school buses went unused. This is unconfirmed rumor I heard--anyone else hear this?

[skipdup]

I heard amtrak offered, but Nagin or his office refused. Not sure if it's true yet... still waiting for details to surface.

[jyl]

legion, I agree Giuliani did a good job on 9/11. However, you should recognize that was a very different disaster. A limited area of lower Manhattan was destroyed. Outside of that specific area, New York was not directly impacted. No-one was going without food or water for multiple days. NYC also had far more resources than New Orleans, for example NYPD had something like 38,000 cops to throw at that limited area versus 1,700 cops for all of New Orleans. Just the NY/NJ Port Authority alone has as many cops as all of New Orleans (1,800 currently).

competentone, do you really think concern over media bias is why the National Guard made no effort to patrol the Convention Center, or why the New Orleans police made rather little effort? I seriously doubt it - that sounds like something that apologists make up after the fact.

Look, the Guard simply f'd it up. They had 250 armed soldiers and their equipment right in the Convention Center, and instead of protecting even a part of the Center where the people were, or calling for additional troops (I believe there were 3,000 Guard in New Orleans during that period) they barricaded themselves in their own area and hid.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by jyl
Here is an interesting story about what happened at the Convention Center.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/14/AR2005091402655.html

There were 250 Louisiana National Guard troops stationed at the center for most of the week following the hurricane. They made no effort to control the violence. The idea never crossed their minds.

"By Tuesday night, a contingent of at least 250 Louisiana National Guard troops was hunkered down in Hall A, off Julia Street at the northern end of the building.

The armed troops, from at least two engineering battalions -- the 769th and 527th -- had been assigned to set up a base at the center to prepare for debris removal and road clearing, as well as rescue and security. But they had enough food and water only for themselves and had no immediate orders to provide assistance or security for the thousands of evacuees in their midst, according to interviews with a dozen enlisted soldiers and officers.

Instead, as the danger level grew, they felt they must first protect themselves.

"There was way too many of them and way too few of us," said Master Sgt. Chad Anderson, 37. "Since we couldn't help them, it was best to avoid them. They had a mob, crazy mentality."

Whenever the soldiers left the center on missions, they drove west on Julia Street and away from the throngs of people begging for food and water along Convention Center Boulevard. "When they saw the soldiers, they'd think, 'That's food,' " said Sgt. Karla Spillers, 26. "We didn't have any for them. We had to feed our own people."

Spillers said she felt pain at the knowledge that teenage girls were wandering around the center, alone, knowing they were possible prey.

"There were prisoners, mobsters, gangs" in there, she said.

Almost as soon as they arrived, Guard commanders became concerned enough about the safety of their troops that they ordered more weapons and ammunition. On Wednesday night, there was kicking and banging on the doors to Hall A, where the guardsmen were. "They were trying to break the doors and get us," said Anderson. "They knew we were there."

"About 9 that night, we started barricading the doors," said Staff Sgt. Bryan Lowery, a supply sergeant with the 527th battalion.

Guardsmen parked at least three dump trucks next to the doors to block them, and Lowery began dispensing weapons and ammunition.

"It scared me," Spillers recalled. "Everyone went to get their weapons from the backs of the trucks."

That night, Guard commanders figured the convention center was untenable as a staging base. And they, too, left the center despite what Fore said were his pleas to stay.

"We were told they couldn't help us unless the order came down from the top, from a lot of people," Fore said. "The only time they partnered with us was when there were gunshots in the area where they were actually staying. They protected themselves."

Maj. Keith Waddell, commander of the 769th Engineer Battalion, said his unit was never asked to quell the violence at the convention center. "The idea of helping with the convention center never came up," he said. "We were just preparing ourselves for the next mission."

Waddell said he believes that, if so ordered, the Louisiana Guard forces present would have been adequate to get the center under control.

"I feel confident we could have controlled it, with the numbers we had," Waddell said.

But senior commanders indicated they had ruled out that possibility. Col. Stephen C. Dabadie, chief of staff of the Louisiana National Guard, said the engineer units were "not designed to secure the convention center." "

The New Orleans police also sent in a SWAT team to extract two white people, the wife and a friend of a Jefferson Parish police officer. Otherwise, the police did not intervene at the center.

"That same day, the New Orleans police made a dramatic entrance. Sgt. Hans Ganthier and 12 other New Orleans SWAT team members entered the center, M-4 commando rifles at the ready. Prayers had been answered -- only it was a rescue mission of a different purpose.

A Jefferson Parish police deputy had appealed to SWAT team Capt. Jeff Winn for help in bringing out his wife and a female relative from the center. "He knew they were there and was hearing nightmarish stories," said Ganthier, who declined to identify the officer for security reasons.

Winn approved the mission.

When the SWAT team entered at 11 a.m., the Jefferson Parish officer called out his wife's name. She heard him, and along with the relative rushed to his side. The SWAT team put the women in the middle of the team, then backed out the door.

Once it became clear that the SWAT team had come with the single goal of rescuing two white women, anger exploded.

"Racists!" one man cried out.

"Some people were upset we weren't rescuing them," said Ganthier. "It's hard to leave people behind like that, but we were aiding an officer." "

Whaaaa? Didn't "think of it?"

What discipline could be mete to those? Who would do the disciplining? Would this be a court marshall?

[competentone]

Originally posted by jyl

competentone, do you really think concern over media bias is why the National Guard made no effort to patrol the Convention Center, or why the New Orleans police made rather little effort? I seriously doubt it - that sounds like something that apologists make up after the fact.

No, I'm not suggesting that the Guard was thinking about the media's reaction; my point was that the media (especially certain media sources) are going to find something to complain about no matter what.

[fintstone]

If they had started shooting people without the ROE allowing it...they would have been subject to court martial and spent the rest of their life in prison. Gosh, they are not even allowed to do that in Iraq....much less New Orleans.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by competentone
No, I'm not suggesting that the Guard was thinking about the media's reaction; my point was that the media (especially certain media sources) are going to find something to complain about no matter what.

Well in that article, it portrays the guard as very terrified....

But question: how could these guardsmen not be trained in such things?

[jyl]

Someone in the chain of command could have ordered the unit to secure the Convention Center, or at least a part of it. The Major commanding the unit states he had the necessary force. The unit had communication with Guard commanders, since they were being sent on missions and were able to order more weapons and ammunition. The unit's personnel knew how grave the situation was in the Convention Center and they knew how badly civilians were suffering. Did the unit's commanding officer report the situation to his commanders and request permission to intervene? Did his commanders order him not to intervene? If so, why did they conclude that the safety of some 20,000 civilians was less important that the original mission of "debris removal" and etc?

I hope these questions get answered. If civilians are being killed and raped within earshot of a sizeable and organized force of armed National Guard troops, you would expect those troops to take some action - or at least to request permission to take some action.

[skipdup]

What a freakin goat rodeo.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by skipdup
What a freakin goat rodeo.

No kidding.

So bizarre...so very bizarre...

[AFJuvat]

Originally posted by cool_chick

But question: how could these guardsmen not be trained in such things?

They were engineers - armed construction workers and civil engineers.

With the exception of military police\security forces, Guardsmen, and all military for that matter are not routinely trained in crowd control, especially crowd control for "friendlies"

Enemy crowd control is much easier.

Also, the military is a bureaucracy at a level that many civilians find hard to comprehend. Orders come from up high, you do not deviate from your orders without authorization unless you need to protect your unit.

Add that to a deterorating situation that I don't think anyone really thought possible. (is it me or did the convention center and the super dome remind anyone else of "Lord of the Flies"?) and you have a mess.

AFJ