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12-14-2005, 01:49 PM
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But in Revolutionary times, only about a third of the population was for breaking free of England. A third wanted to stary a colony (Tories) and about a third just din't care that much, one way or the other.
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techweenie | techweenie.com Marketing Consultant (expensive!) 1969 coupe hot rod 2016 Tesla Model S dd/parts fetcher |
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12-14-2005, 02:21 PM
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Oh here we go. There is no separation of chuch and state in the Bill of Rights. That term is a court creation. The First Amend. only bars the establishment of a state religion. I'll make a wild guess and say they had the Church of England in mind. I don't think they were thinking of the horrible nativity scenes the Redcoats left behind in each town they sacked.
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12-14-2005, 02:26 PM
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Senior Member
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Location: N. Phoenix AZ USA
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They like America and the ones I have spoken with outside of America (and out of Iran as well) are for the most part very "Westernized" and not marching in lockstep with the religious zealots. That said, the religious zealots are in charge of the govt and the day to day running of the country. How to change it is a good question but Iran is still actively supporting terrorism on a DAILY basis so it needs to stop. The majority of the SHAPE (explosive) charges that are being used in Iraq these days are smuggled in from Iran, so their hands are bloody in this fight. JoeA
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12-14-2005, 07:47 PM
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You know I can't stand most of the self professed Proud Righties on these forums or anywhere, but Iran is a quickly becoming a Problem.
I have no qualms about Israel launching strikes. I hope they do to Iran's nuclear capabilities what they did to the egyptian air force way back when.
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12-15-2005, 06:10 AM
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Dan, we might as well do it with Israel. Because we WILL be blamed for anything they do. It's not like the Israeli Air Force is gonna get to Iran without our clearing them to fly over Iraq.
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12-15-2005, 06:22 AM
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Did you get the memo?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
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12-15-2005, 07:24 AM
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Lee, they may tell us..might as well tell CNN, a few will know... but just look the other way..they don't need our permission. Israel is very good as this.
Rika |
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12-15-2005, 07:30 AM
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The political situation in Iran is not as simple as a lot of you seem to claim. As a people they are largely for American and would like better relations. The theocracy is able to manipulate the slate of candidates to ensure that the options are limited. They (the theocracy) were caught flatfooted by the election of Hatami. They honestly thought the population as a whole supported them. I have no idea why they elected this loser.
With the public quietly protesting the power base a number of people in the US think it would be great to offer our support to the people of Iran to rise up against the clerics. Bush essentiall did this a couple of years back. Iranians have a nationalistic streak. This the perfect way to get there backs up. They want their own identity and hate the thought of being under US control (again). I expect that the problem in Iran will take care of itself. The people will eventually get rid of these folks. Most of the population is too young too remember the reasons for the revolution and just want to have a decent life.
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12-15-2005, 07:32 AM
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I agree with Island. I think the Iran problem will likely take care of itself. I sincerely hope it does before it reaches a critical mass, provoking an Israeli and/or American intervention.
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12-15-2005, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Worcester, MA
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Iran scares the ever living crap out of me. And everything I read about the new leaders of Iraq (DAWA and SCIRI) says that they are extremely close to Iran - that nearly all of them spent years in Iran and are being pretty openly funded by the mullahs. Sistani was born in Iran. The Shiite militias currently infiltrating the new Iraqi army were mostly trained, organized, and equipped by Iran. I mean, my god, is the newly elected government in Iraq really being run by a group calling themselves the "Supreme Council of the Islamic Revolution in Iraq"?????? Someone please tell me I should not be having nightmares about this! Please, anyone with better information than my own...please make me feel okay with this!
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12-15-2005, 08:20 AM
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IIRC, the clerics in Iran have the power remove candidates from the ballot.
I agree that Iran will probably fix itself eventually, but only if we can prevent the people in control from getting nuclear weapons. If they do acquire them, I can't see anything preventing them from using them on their own people to maintain control.
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Some Porsches long ago...then a wankle... 5 liters of VVT fury now -Chris "There is freedom in risk, just as there is oppression in security." |
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12-15-2005, 08:28 AM
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 Please, somebody tell me it's gonna be okay!
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12-15-2005, 02:16 PM
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I agree, there's a dichotomy between people who appreciated the "Westernized" world that the Shah and Saddam were helping foster and those reacting against it and wanting a return to fundamentalism. But the fundies seem to have the ability to weild power more effectively than those for reform (something we are arguably facing here as well). No, it's not going to 'be all right.' Not for a long, long time; hundreds of billions and thousands of lives. The Iraq invasion upset a balance of sorts. The means were ugly, but the end result was relative stability. If Israel decides to fire missiles at Iran's nuclear facilities (aren't they all in residential areas?) all bets are off, and you'd best have that fallout shelter done!
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techweenie | techweenie.com Marketing Consultant (expensive!) 1969 coupe hot rod 2016 Tesla Model S dd/parts fetcher Last edited by techweenie; 12-15-2005 at 04:01 PM.. |
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12-15-2005, 02:46 PM
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There is a goodly number of Iranian boomers who do not like us, suffered under the Shah's police, rejoiced at the overthrow of the Shah, and hate us for the downing of the airliner. The under 30 crowd may lean western, but they are not in command.
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12-20-2005, 09:35 AM
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12-20-2005, 01:38 PM
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