Troops will get side body armor

[techweenie]

Another lightning-fast response to battlefield conditions...

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U.S. troops in Iraq, Afghanistan to get new side armor
Pentagon study found lack of plates cost many lives
Ann Scott Tyson, Washington Post
Thursday, January 12, 2006

Washington -- The Army announced Wednesday that it would soon start producing 230,000 sets of side armor plates and field them over the year to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan after a recently disclosed Pentagon study indicated such plates could have helped prevent scores of troop deaths since 2003.

----------------full story-------------

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/12/MNG3PGM02I1.DTL&feed=rss.news

[RallyJon]

But the guy who released the study to the public will face prison time.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Well, duh.

Yea there was a weakness in the armor and if we fix it it might be more effective.

How much they pay these consultants to come up with this ****? I need a job doin' that!

[svandamme]

anyone who is dumb enough to sign up for a job where the jobdescription even remotely mentions "bullets" , shouldn't complain to much...

that said, tough if you realized the above statement well after signing up... life's a b!tch... then you die... it's a fact

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by svandamme
anyone who is dumb enough to sign up for a job where the jobdescription even remotely mentions "bullets" , shouldn't complain to much...

Nice callous remark. As for the body armor. Hell if we were encased in solid steel than no one would get killed. As it is the body armor is already a hinderance to mobility. How many of you have ever worn body armor, carried a 35lb ruck, a weapon and had to run in 100 degree weather? Sure more body armor will stop bullets, but without a change in the weight of the armor you are already maxing out what an average soldier can carry and be effective.

[Nathans_Dad]

Actually the body armor that they have been using is incredibly effective. If you look at the wound patterns for the Iraq war vs any other war there is a marked decrease in the wounds to the torso. No amount of body armor will save you if an IED blows up right next to you. The issue we are facing now is lots and lots of lost limbs. The soldiers are surviving more, but they have more amputations to live with. The difference is that without the body armor they would be dead, not an amputee.

Body armor is incredibly heavy and hot and Kurt has it right on, eventually they will come up with armor that doesn't weigh as much and full armor suits may become available.

[svandamme]

the best armour , is not signing up.


in case there was any confusion about my previuos post

[Nathans_Dad]

Ah, the Murtha gambit...

[RallyJon]

At the risk of asking a stupid question: what do the soldiers want?

Would they prefer to be walking tanks, despite the discomfort? Or is it more like football, where--depending on your role--you choose the big thick pads or the light, unencumbering pads?

[svandamme]

Originally posted by RallyJon
At the risk of asking a stupid question: what do the soldiers want?

That's easy

they want to be home again

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by svandamme
That's easy
they want to be home again

Tough not to keep your dim-witted political thoughts to yourself isn't it? Have you ever been in the military? I have, I've been there and I talk to a number of the guys over there on a daily basis. Everything is a trade off. No one wants to get shot. But on the other hand you also want to be mobile. When you put on all the gear you are issued now it is almost impossible to shoot from the prone position forcing you to shoot from a kneeling or standing position which in turn makes you more vulnerable. On the other hand, continued research will eventually make lighter armor available for the troops.

[svandamme]

how would that be a political thought? i didn't comment on politics at all

so you were in the military , good for you.
where you in the ***** at some point?
shelled? bombed? shot? gassed?

i've never been in the military , i don't want to , i fail to see the fun in getting shot at, and as "what would i know if i wasn't in the military?"

i was born in Ypres, maybe the Big War is over for 80 years now
but everywhere i looked when growning up , i saw proof of dead people

ever been to Ypres? seen all the names of all the poor bastards on the wall? heard the Last Post, still played everyday at 20h sharp?
i think the clostest thing that compares to it is Hiroshima memorial, which happens to be sister city with Ypres now, or the Arizona memorial in Pearl Harbour.

there's probably more folks who never got a proper burial in the ground of my home town and the villages around it, than Hiroshima or the Arizona put together.

my neeces husband is curator for the Flanders Fields Museum, i've seen the worst that man can do to another man, read the stories, i did the website for a couple of years and was in the museum a lot, if i know one thing, and i can say that without having been in the military , is that there is no glory in beeing a grunt, beeing cannon fodder because some politician decided he wanted a fight, and because some general decided he wants hill 60 now...

these guys did not have a choice
in those days, you got drafted, if you failed to show up
you got shot in the head with a cheap bullet after a 5 second judgement

there is no glory in war and if anyone has the choice of not signing up for it....







this is where i grew up, there's thousands of cemeteries scattered across the land, they're everywhere
that last picture...that's Tynecot cemetry , 11871 souls.
70% of them are unnamed graves

By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)
Canadian Army
IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow
Between the crosses row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by svandamme
how would that be a political thought? i didn't comment on politics at all

so you were in the military , good for you.
where you in the ***** at some point?
shelled? bombed? shot? gassed?

i've never been in the military , i don't want to , i fail to see the fun in getting shot at, and as "what would i know if i wasn't in the military?"

i was born in Ypres, maybe the Big War is over for 80 years now
but everywhere i looked when growning up , i saw proof of dead people

Well said. I have been to Ypres, and I know of what you speak.

My grandparents never let me forget the horrors of war. They were unfortunate enough to live in Arnhem and Nijmegen, Netherlands. These towns were of great strategic importance to the Nazis.

They were not called to fight. They had to fight to survive when the government laid down like pansies. They took it upon themselves to build an army of peers. They hid their friends in attics. They hunted and killed Wermacht and SS with little more than piano wire. They had no choice.

The previous statement really pisses me off as I have friends in Iraq being shot at on a daily basis, while I do what I can to help out their families.

I may have not fought in a war, but I know and have seen in person where they lived, what they went through, and understand the ramifications of this current situation and it scares me.

[svandamme]

there's one thing to defend ones family , or even ones country , but signing up for duty is another thing... your grandparents know what's right, it should not be forgotten, and i think the tendency of everybody who was in WW1 or WW2 , is to have a pacifistic nature, war is never right, it should never be acceptable, if anything , it is a failure of our species, our society , and everything we do. and it's all possible because some folks can get other folks to sign up, and take orders from cowards who don't even fight themself... if nobody would sign up, and take the orders, then what would we have had? Sadam & Bush duke it out mano a mano? maybe that would have been nice for all the civilians who "accidently" got killed. "sorry mam , i missed" "we had our gps coordinates switched, good luck on the house rebuild
maybe americans don't really understand us Europeans , and Japanese, because you've never actually had a real fight on your hands, in your back yard.
don't talk Pearl to me, or Twin Towers, that doesn't compare to what our grandparents went through 2 times 4 years , i'm talking total war within their country....you should be lucky for the geography of the USA... so you never had to endure something like a World War on your own soil...
but don't call me a liberal scumbag pacifist for honering the sentiments of the dead in my home soil... they sure as hell did not want war.

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by svandamme
there's one thing to defend ones family , or even ones country , but signing up for duty is another thing... your grandparents know what's right, it should not be forgotten, and i think the tendency of everybody who was in WW1 or WW2 , is to have a pacifistic nature, war is never right, it should never be acceptable, if anything , it is a failure of our species, our society , and everything we do. and it's all possible because some folks can get other folks to sign up, and take orders from cowards who don't even fight themself... if nobody would sign up, and take the orders, then what would we have had? Sadam & Bush duke it out mano a mano? maybe that would have been nice for all the civilians who "accidently" got killed. "sorry mam , i missed" "we had our gps coordinates switched, good luck on the house rebuild
maybe americans don't really understand us Europeans , and Japanese, because you've never actually had a real fight on your hands, in your back yard.
don't talk Pearl to me, or Twin Towers, that doesn't compare to what our grandparents went through 2 times 4 years , i'm talking total war within their country....you should be lucky for the geography of the USA... so you never had to endure something like a World War on your own soil...
but don't call me a liberal scumbag pacifist for honering the sentiments of the dead in my home soil... they sure as hell did not want war.

F***in A, stijn

u hebt mijn eerbied.

[Nathans_Dad]

I see your argument, however you must thank all those people in their graves that you are not goosestepping and speaking Deutsch right now, yes??

[Jared at Pelican Parts]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
I see your argument, however you must thank all those people in their graves that you are not goosestepping and speaking Deutsch right now, yes??

Damn right. Thats why I have a small Dutch flag tattoo with the words Nooit Vergeet (Never Forget)

I for one, understand the importance of America. If it were not for the American military, I would not be here.

[svandamme]

sure Rick, and i do that
it doesn't conflict with wishing there will never be war again
in my point of view, and probably many others is that
the best way to thank them , is make sure it never happens again, ever

many in WW1 died thinking they where fighting the war that would end all wars...i feel sad for the dead on both sides in any war, i'm more touched by WW1 then 2, as it was on my doorstep, but the facts are similar: ego's cause war, and grunts and civilians die because of it...it doesn't matter on what side a grunt is, he's just there cause he was told to be there...
in fighting , they all think the other one is the rotten bastard... but when the veterans from both sides meet up on an archeological dig , recovery or war cemetery or memorial , they know the insanity of it all...and they tend to be very friendly towards eachother, they know eachothers pain and nightmares.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

They're trying to solve as many mistakes as they can within budget constraints (translation: duct tape & bailing wire solutions) before the war in Iran starts.