So, want to see what a $17,000 MM rebuild looks like

[yellowline]

Originally posted by ndavis951
You guys crack me up anyone in Connecticut want a test drive, trust me you will not be dissappointed. And for the record the car is all there

Anyone?

[Cdnone1]

Sorry but I'm trusting Grady over guys that registered in Feb and have under 10 posts!
I have never chimed in about my experience with MM until now, and will not go into detail but with the amount of good used Porsches on the market that MM hasn't touched I would not even consider a car that Roy and those cr@@ks have had their hands on.
Good luck on selling the car.
Steve

[Craig 930 RS]

Has ANYONE stopped by lately to check on how many Porsches are currently at MM?

Might be interesting.

[JeremyD]

It has the 3.6 big bore kit and the racemeister fuel delivery system - so it must all be true.

I posted this thread because I had never seen a detailed account of what MM charges.

I hope your car holds together - the G50 cars are special to me.

My bet is that it's a 3.4 engine - 98mm big bore, PMO's - hopefully this time they used new parts.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by brianct
Here are some facts that I do know about the car:
The motor is a 3.2 liter (case and crank) with 3.6 pistons and jugs --Big Bore Kit. It is listed and underlined in the reciepts from MM. I never once stated that the car had a 3.6 transplanted. 3.2 with 3.6 big bore kit. As to whether this is possible, Motor Meister would be better equipped to answer that question. But from a drivers prespective it seems to work very well.

Brian,

We have already determined that it is not a 964/993 3.6L transplanted (I think most here knew that immediately), but if you reread the ebay ad description you gave one could certainly take it that way:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-PORSCHE-911-CARRERA-COUPE-G50-TRANSMISSION_W0QQitemZ4613705387

Unless I read it or interpret it wrong, you state it is a "3.6L conversion" and not a 3.6L big bore kit as you describe (whatever that is as there there is no such thing).

I realize that it is probably a 3.2L case, crank & rods with a best case scenario 100mm pistons/cylinders (the stock bore size of a 3.6L motor) which would yield 3.5L in displacement and worst case the stock bore size of 95mm's.

I'm sure the motor probably runs great with the carbs and wild cams, and the car looks pretty clean as well in the pictures. Since you are selling the car and it is up to you to be as honest and straightforward as possible, wouldn't it be in your interest to give MM a ring and ask some questions. Any reputable engine builder keeps a file on a motor rebuild and should only take a few moments to decipher what work was performed, even from many years ago. Heck, even if you called MM and asked what brand P's & C's were used would probably go a long way in determining what may be inside.

I'm sure you'll sell it in due course and wish you luck, but the buyer will either not know he is being misled or simply won't care. If I were buying the car with the premise that it is a 3.6L of some sort and it turns out you have misrepresented (whether intentional or not), I'm not going to blame MM, I'm first going to blame myself for being stupid and than going to blame you as you were the one who stated that it was a 3.6L "conversion".

Wouldn't it be more honest to state a 3.2L with big-bore pistons & cylinders since you don't know (and seems like you don't really care) what is really inside?

It also would have been better if you would have initially responded to the growing firestorm rather than your two cronies respond with their less than stellar comments and further add fuel to the fire...

Ralph

[ndavis951]

So I'm curious is this Grady a master Porsche technician or do you guys watch Porsche ads in trade mags and Ebay to get your kicks.

Go drive your damn cars and get from behind the keyboard.....oh yeah bring it on

[RANDY P]

Originally posted by ndavis951
So I'm curious is this Grady a master Porsche technician or do you guys watch Porsche ads in trade mags and Ebay to get your kicks.

Go drive your damn cars and get from behind the keyboard.....oh yeah bring it on

]

Uh oh...

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by ndavis951
So I'm curious is this Grady a master Porsche technician or do you guys watch Porsche ads in trade mags and Ebay to get your kicks.

Go drive your damn cars and get from behind the keyboard.....oh yeah bring it on

Calm down. The folks on this board drive their cars plenty.

There is nothing wrong with a health dose of skeptism when it comes to MM. After you have heard your 10th horror story.....

No one on this board actually has any idea what parts were used in your engine. If it hauls ass, it hauls ass.

Regardless of the builder, folks are quite skeptical of E-bay cars in general, including me (btw, I bought my SC off E-bay and have been very happy).

[Don Plumley]

Originally posted by ndavis951
So I'm curious is this Grady a master Porsche technician or do you guys watch Porsche ads in trade mags and Ebay to get your kicks.

Go drive your damn cars and get from behind the keyboard.....oh yeah bring it on

Try this simple Google on Mr. Grady Clay and note interesting keywords like Daytona and IMSA. A well-known and well-regarded Porsche Authority and a Gentleman.

[mjshira]

You gotta have some major stones to defend MM on this BBS. Too many people have been burned by them. I am frankly shocked that they are still "getting"people.

[schamp]

You know he ought to sell the car to MM. Done deal.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Entertaining thread. I'm confused, who really owns the car, because it seems like we've had multiple claims? I think that until it can be substantiated that the motor really is a 3.6, that it's a bold faced lie to market it as such. And a "reciept" typed in Word or Notepad doesn't count. When realizing that the parts listed don't add up to a 3.6, the seller should have called MM and jumped down their throats demanding justification. Instead he/them/whatever post on here, essentially accusing all of us of spreading lies, claiming only that the car runs well. Well my friend, this is all squarely on your shoulders now, because you have full knowledge of the doubts surrounding your motor. Anyone with integrity would sort this out before attempting to sell the car, but I think your posts on here speak volumes as to your intentions. Selling the car as a 3.6 right now is nothing short of outright fraud.

[DByers]

Having first hand experience with Roy & MM, I would never buy any thing from them, built by them or even supplied by them, period.
As to this particular 911, it is listed in Pano by some one other then the owner as a "3.6 Motor Meister" engine. As many have pointed out, this 3.6 label is not a true description of the motor.
Brian, it is unfortunate that you bought this car with the MM engine and are now trying to sell it using that as a strong point. It just does not add up for many in the Porsche community when someone says MM= quality. A little research would have brought the MM situation to the surface, not just here but many places.
How does one smog this engine? It would not pass here in Cali. I suppose other states are less stringent?
Lastly, Grady is stand up all the way. A little reading and research again would have gone a long way.

[silverc4s]

Originally posted by ndavis951
So I'm curious is this Grady a master Porsche technician or do you guys watch Porsche ads in trade mags and Ebay to get your kicks.

Go drive your damn cars and get from behind the keyboard.....oh yeah bring it on

YOU may not know who Grady is; but I think we have pretty well got you figured out.

As a partner in a retail (i.e. licensed) used car business here in Texas, I have met many of your ilk. Honesty was not one of the attributes held in high esteem by any of them...

Have a nice day, good luck with the car...

[brianct]

Onewhippedpuppy,



I’m glad you’re enjoying the thread, but I find your post confusing. Maybe I can help you:



I own the car. Period. No one else has claimed ownership. This is my private car owned and driven by me. Norm did me a personal favor and listed it Panorama, so I understand that there may have been some ownership confusion, but I thought I had cleared the air. I own the car. Any questions on this, please contact me directly so that I can provide you with an affidavit or photos, or a note from my mother; whatever you require. Again: I own the car.



Nowhere did I claim that the motor was a 3.6. The ebay ad says “3.6 conversion” which, in retrospect, may be a little ambiguous. Fortunately, even though I had no idea that the car would subjected to such a thorough cross-examination, I had the good sense to post all the receipts for the work so that potential buyers could read and see exactly what the “conversion” entailed. Some of these potential buyers have even taken the extraordinary step of contacting me to ask me questions; a novel and creative approach for sure. Please accept my deepest heartfelt apologies for the quality of the receipts; their poor quality is yet another crime upon humanity perpetrated by Motor Meister. And no, I will not be calling MM and “demanding justification”. I believe the receipts I have accurately portray the work done on the car. Further, I am not their customer, the previous owner is: they owe me nothing.



My objections to the comments on this board are that most were made without making any effort to contact me or clarify anything. Grady is the exception; while I may not agree with all of the comments he made, at least he took the time to contact me for the real information.



As for your comment, “Selling the car as a 3.6 right now is nothing short of outright fraud.” I agree 100%. However, no one is doing that. I am selling the car for what it is: a conversion with documentation detailing the work done. I suggest you take the remainder of the day to carefully reread my comments in the forum and on the ebay listed. If your opinion is not changed, perhaps a class in remedial reading comprehension would be helpful?

“I think your posts on here speak volumes as to your intentions”. I certainly hope so.

I am done with this thread. I guess the bottom line is that the negative and borderline libelous comments made on this board are all by people who do not know me and do not know the car. Other than Grady, no one has contacted me, and while Grady did contact me, he was not truthful in his motive for contact. Rather than me withholding information from him, the opposite is in fact the truth. None of you keyboard critics have taken the time to see and drive the car. Say what you will about MM, this car is the real deal. It runs like it should, even 5k miles out of the shop. Just how long should can I expect this to continue before all this “substandard” work grenades the engine? Give me a break.

Please pardon my sarcasm.

[RANDY P]

Brian -

Well, someone may buy it, it may reappear here, and then you'll hear about it some more once the new owner finds out. Won't be the first time it's happened.. Heck, you heard about it?

Either way, technically you are correct - you have a plausible excuse. Just hope whomever buys it doesn't find this out somehow.

rjp

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by HardDrive
Calm down. The folks on this board drive their cars plenty.

Not only do we drive our cars, but we wrench on them, have research about them, show them off to each other, and share a genuine passion for them. One of the ways this manifests itself in what you have seen in this thread - BS detection as a result of an obscene amount of combined knowledge that is frequently, without question, and freely given upon request by people such as the recently maligned Grady Clay.

From what I've seen here over the years, I'd take his word as gospel before I'd consider an ounce of one of the three of yours BS (brianct, Ndavis and the other guy...) on this car.

Too much disinformation being spun up on this car, anyone with a quarter brain would be wise to walk away.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by brianct
Nowhere did I claim that the motor was a 3.6. The ebay ad says “3.6 conversion” which, in retrospect, may be a little ambiguous. Fortunately, even though I had no idea that the car would subjected to such a thorough cross-examination, I had the good sense to post all the receipts for the work so that potential buyers could read and see exactly what the “conversion” entailed.

Brian,

It's good to see that you may be finally "getting it". Here is your first paragraph again for those who haven't seen the complete ebay ad:

"This is an exceptional example of a 1989 911 coupe. I have just over $20,000. in reciepts from Motor Meister in California for a 3.6 conversion that was done only 5,000 miles ago. The 5 pages which list all of the work done to the car are in with the pictures beloW."

Most everyone knows that the parts needed to make a 3.6L from a 3.0L/3.2L/3.3L are expensive and needs to be done right for long-term reliability, which is why people (incl. me) are scouring the MM receipts you've listed (which was good btw) looking for parts documentation to support your claim. I've seen many and had a hand in many of these types of motors built, probably more than 90% of the people on this board. Your darn right people are going to cross-examine, as any diligent potential buyer should.

Me personally, I don't care who the owner of the car is nor do I care who built the motor and what the build quality may or may not be. Those are questions asked by interested buying parties and would be resolved with a PPI and some research.

The only problem that I have had with all of this is that up until your last post, you simply misrepresented the car (ignorantly or not) and didn't seem to care, hiding behind the "Previous owner had the motor built by MM" and thus it isn't my problem. It is your problem.

What do you tell somebody in person when they come to see/drive the car? Are you up front and tell them it's a 3.6L "conversion" when you know now it isn't? Why don't you edit your ebay listing and simply mention that it has "big bore" pistons & cylinders and leave it at that? In my opinion, this absolves you from misrepresenting the car and makes for an accurate listing.

Your obviously going to do what you want (and you should since its your car) but hopefully you have a conscience and don't try and net a few thousand extra dollars out of the car by having to misrepresent it. If the car looks and drives as nice as you say it does, it will quickly sell at a fair price on its own merits.

Like you, I'm done with this thread.

Ralph

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally posted by brianct


Nowhere did I claim that the motor was a 3.6. The ebay ad says “3.6 conversion” which, in retrospect, may be a little ambiguous. Fortunately, even though I had no idea that the car would subjected to such a thorough cross-examination, I had the good sense to post all the receipts for the work so that potential buyers could read and see exactly what the “conversion” entailed. Some of these potential buyers have even taken the extraordinary step of contacting me to ask me questions; a novel and creative approach for sure. Please accept my deepest heartfelt apologies for the quality of the receipts; their poor quality is yet another crime upon humanity perpetrated by Motor Meister. And no, I will not be calling MM and “demanding justification”. I believe the receipts I have accurately portray the work done on the car. Further, I am not their customer, the previous owner is: they owe me nothing.

As for your comment, “Selling the car as a 3.6 right now is nothing short of outright fraud.” I agree 100%. However, no one is doing that. I am selling the car for what it is: a conversion with documentation detailing the work done. I suggest you take the remainder of the day to carefully reread my comments in the forum and on the ebay listed. If your opinion is not changed, perhaps a class in remedial reading comprehension would be helpful?

“I think your posts on here speak volumes as to your intentions”. I certainly hope so.

Bearing in mind the fact that I obviously have the reading comprehension of a 3rd grader, could I recieve some clarification as to your reply? You are marketing the car as a "3.6 conversion", and yet you are not claiming the car to be a 3.6? If it is in fact not, I'm sure your EBay bidders would be very interested to know what is in the car. I think the mere fact that you have tried to distance yourself from the claim exposes your own doubts, and yet you have not had the internal fortitude to express this to your potential buyers. Appearently we have surpassed the integrity price point in this issue.

I do hope that you will acknowledge that you have a responsibility to accurately represent the car that you are selling, and that any doubts as to the validity of the work will be expressed to potential buyers. Better yet would be to further research the issue, so that you can provide an accurate portrayal of your car. You may be tempted to downplay the validity of internet critism, but the knowledge of several that posted on this thread is tough to match. I know that it is a tough spot, I'm sure the car was sold to you represented as a 3.6, and it never feels good to get screwed. I can only hope that you will do the right thing in the end, and not simply pass on this doubt to the next uninformed buyer. It looks to otherwise be a nice car, I hope that this issue can be resolved such that both you and your future buyer benefit.

[Craig 930 RS]

Money & greed drive men to do interesting things.