Meditation on the speed limit

[Moses]

Originally posted by island911
English?

It means regardless of the speed limit. Prima fasie refers to "understood" speed limits. In other words, even if a road has no posted speed limit, you may not exceed 25 MPH if there is a school zone. On a highway that is unposted, the prima fasie limit in California is 65 or 70.

Regardless of the speed limit, you must surrender the number one lane to FASTER moving traffic. It is more than courtesy, it is the law. The video illustrates why.

Amazingly. we have even had LEO's here post that they did not think obstructing the flow of traffic at the speed limit was illegal! I have a friend who was a 20 year CHP officer. Obstructing the flow of traffic in the fast lane while driving at the speed limit was his favorite ticket to write. Never had one successfully challenged.

[gaijindabe]

In a zillion miles of interstate driving, I think I saw one old sign in New Jersey. "Pass on Left".

On I-95 heading south through NJ, DE & MD - you see a dozen signs for a terrorism hotline. Imagine being the putz waiting for that phone to ring....

[Moses]

California Vehicle Code 21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

Could it be any clearer? In California, the kids in the video were breaking the law.

[TheMentat]

Originally posted by Christien
In general, "keep right except to pass" is a courtesy thing, not a law. The only way that could be enforced as a law would be if the person not "keeping right" were travelling dangerously under the limit and creating dangerous conditions.

I fail to see how these people, all driving exactly the speed limit, create a dangerous situation. Because some @sshole decided he was too important to sit in traffic and passed them on the shoulder, without bothering to look to see if there were any parked cars on the shoulder, nearly creating a serious incident, doesn't in any way make what they were doing unsafe.

While I agree that in many (all) places, blocking the left lane is not illegal, it doesn't make it right. Blocking the left lane DOES create a dangerous situation. We are all aware (or should be aware) of the frustration that this, rightfully or wrongfully, causes in many drivers (myself included). Frustrated drivers are inherently more dangerous, and therefore, by intentionally blocking the left lane, you are creating a dangerous situation.

Its kinda like mocking a biker gang member... he may unlawfully inflict an injury as a result, but we can't deny the fact that the mockery is what created the dangerous situation.

[island911]

Originally posted by Moses
It means . . ..

// snip //

Amazingly. we have even had LEO's here post that they did not think obstructing the flow of traffic at the speed limit was illegal! I have a friend who was a 20 year CHP officer. Obstructing the flow of traffic in the fast lane while driving at the speed limit was his favorite ticket to write. Never had one successfully challenged.

Thanks, Moses.

Sheesh, how many State languages does California have?

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by Moses
California Vehicle Code 21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

Could it be any clearer? In California, the kids in the video were breaking the law.

Ok then where are there even speed limits. Lets all just go with the flow of traffic on the highways. Sounds good to me, the P-Car needs to stretch its legs anyways. Oh yea thats the California Vehicle Code. I think they were in Atlanta.

[Mr_Wizard]

You all need to calm down and enjoy some slow paced country. I do not miss Cali!!!!! Bunch a f'en wackos

[Mr_Wizard]

You all need to calm down and enjoy some slow paced country livin. I do not miss Cali!!!!! Bunch a f'en wackos

[Moses]

From the Georgia Vehicle Code;

(d) No two vehicles shall impede the normal flow of traffic by
traveling side by side at the same time while in adjacent lanes,
provided that this Code section shall not be construed to prevent
vehicles traveling side by side in adjacent lanes because of
congested traffic conditions.

They were breaking the law.

[tobster1911]

The point of these kids, right/wrong/indifferent, was that the LIMIT on the sign is just plain stupid.

Moses points out that there are laws that say you can not impede traffic. OK, that does not mean that the point is invalid. It just means that both sides are breaking the law. One for speeding, the other for impeding traffic.

This brings up the question of, If the LAW allows for people to travel above the posted limits (flow of traffic thing), why is the law there to begin with? Oh Yeah, REVENUE......

[Christien]

Originally posted by TheMentat
While I agree that in many (all) places, blocking the left lane is not illegal, it doesn't make it right. Blocking the left lane DOES create a dangerous situation. We are all aware (or should be aware) of the frustration that this, rightfully or wrongfully, causes in many drivers (myself included). Frustrated drivers are inherently more dangerous, and therefore, by intentionally blocking the left lane, you are creating a dangerous situation.

Its kinda like mocking a biker gang member... he may unlawfully inflict an injury as a result, but we can't deny the fact that the mockery is what created the dangerous situation.

Very true, good analogy. I think however it still underscores the fact that slow traffic = frustrated drivers = danger, an equation which to me is even more frustrating than the original slow moving traffic. I spend a fair amount of time on this country's busiest stretch of highway, and traffic drives me nuts to no end. However I realize that getting frustrated just makes it worse, and there's nothing (safe) I can do about it. So I deal with it, as should others. (don't even get me started on the miserable excuse for public transportation in and around Toronto.)

[Moses]

Originally posted by tobster1911
It just means that both sides are breaking the law. One for speeding, the other for impeding traffic.

DING DING DING! We have a winner! You are precisely correct.

[Jims5543]

I got ticketed for travelling 85 in a 70 in Georgia. I pulled out of the center lane to pass a slower moving car. When I encountered the slower car I was doing 77-80 MPH. I looked in my rearview and saw some faster cars coming. I pulled out to pass and sped up. I was nailed by a laser gun. Officer asked me why I was going so fast and I replied I was getting out of the way of the faster cars behind me. I was making a pass and getting out of the way.

I got a ticket for speeding. Yup, this video hits a sore spot with me. I was running with the flow of traffic and speeding up to get out of the way and move back over, that got me a ticket.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by Moses
DING DING DING! We have a winner! You are precisely correct.

I am off to Las Vegas, hope this holds out.......

So, Moses, do you think that the current speed limits on the majority of the road are correctly posted or outdated? This was the point of the "experiment" legality aside.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by tobster1911
I am off to Las Vegas, hope this holds out.......

So, Moses, do you think that the current speed limits on the majority of the road are correctly posted or outdated? This was the point of the "experiment" legality aside.

since the limits are about revenue generation and not safety, they clearly are outdated...they should be LOWER so they generate more revenue for cash-strapped municipalities...

[Moses]

Originally posted by tobster1911

So, Moses, do you think that the current speed limits on the majority of the road are correctly posted or outdated? This was the point of the "experiment" legality aside.

Speed surveys on major California highways indicate that the average speed of traffic greatly exceeds the posted limit. There are no reliable data that show speed limit reductions result in added safety.

Passing on the right, while legal, is a major cause of accidents on our highways.

We should re-survey our actual highway speeds and adjust the limits to a more realistic level. Of course that approach would reduce state citation revenue and will never happen.

Realistically, the limit on I5 should be at least 80 MPH.

[nostatic]

but they're filmakers, so its ok...

[Tervuren]

In my state, they stress to only pass if you can do so while driving at the speed limit. So long as they where driving close to 55MPH, they would not be impeding faster traffic, a faster traffic should not exist. Now, if they where driving 45MPH, they would be impeding traffic, and it would be wrong.

Most speedometers are off by a bit. Only my mom's 944 S2 is spot on accurate. The E350, is 38MPH indicated for true 35MPH, etc. In my 944, I drive 40 indicated in a 35, and its dead on if being checked by radar.

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by nostatic
since the limits are about revenue generation and not safety, they clearly are outdated...they should be LOWER so they generate more revenue for cash-strapped municipalities...

We have an underutilized stretch here in NYC (the Clearview btween the LIE & the GCP) where the speed limit drops to 50.

3 lanes, little traffic, but that is where the unmarked HP like to make their quota$. The surrounding roads are a friggin' racetrack with little or no enforcement.

[Mr_Wizard]

Originally posted by Moses
Realistically, the limit on I5 should be at least 80 MPH.

So then traffic would be traveling at 95 MPH, and we would still be discussing this issue. No matter what the posted speed limit is, traffic will always exceed it. It is pointless to argue, you are in a no win situation you either keep with the flow of traffic and possibly get a ticket or get a ticket for impeding traffic. Any way you look at it the state is gonna get their money.