Meditation on the speed limit

[masraum]

I wouldn't say the speed limits are dumb. I feel pretty safe running along at 75-80, but that's in a car that's setup to handle well, stop well, and I pay attention to driving. The problem are the other cars that shouldn't be going 75-80 or even more often the other drivers that shouldn't be cruising along on the phone, reading the paper, putting on make-up, eating/drinking breakfast, etc....

I speed all of the time, but I think the speed limits are probably for the best. If we had more stringent requirements for training, testing, vehicle road worthiness, etc... then I think the speed limit probably could be safely raised.

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
I got ticketed for travelling 85 in a 70 in Georgia. I pulled out of the center lane to pass a slower moving car. When I encountered the slower car I was doing 77-80 MPH. I looked in my rearview and saw some faster cars coming. I pulled out to pass and sped up. I was nailed by a laser gun. Officer asked me why I was going so fast and I replied I was getting out of the way of the faster cars behind me. I was making a pass and getting out of the way.

Well, legally you were in the wrong. If you had to speed up to a speed greater than the speed limit then you should not have pulled out. Speeding to pass whether on a multilane freeway or a two lane road where you end up in the oncoming lane is not legal. If you have to break the speed limit to pass then you shouldn't pass.

Them's the rules. I don't make 'em or even follow 'em too closely.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by masraum
Well, legally you were in the wrong. If you had to speed up to a speed greater than the speed limit then you should not have pulled out. Speeding to pass whether on a multilane freeway or a two lane road where you end up in the oncoming lane is not legal. If you have to break the speed limit to pass then you shouldn't pass.

Them's the rules. I don't make 'em or even follow 'em too closely.

Yup and the speed limit on the stretch of road those kids were on was 55. And they obeyed the law and look at the rutkus it caused.

[island911]

Originally posted by masraum
. . . If you had to speed up to a speed greater than the speed limit then you should not have pulled out. . . .

I don't believe that is accurate.

.. cops may say that to make you pay . .. but that doesn't mean it's law.

[island911]

In fairness to (most) cops . . they seem to nab speeders who are just flying down the road, not really paying attention to anything. I find that if the driver demonstrates, to the cop, that they are ready to respond quickly to whats before them . .. that the cops let the speeding slide.

Afterall, it is people who just "ride behind the wheel" that cause most problems. (they're even a bigger problem than drunks

[ubiquity0]

hmmm.... that looks like a good idea

I wonder if they were relying on their speedometers to determine if they were going 55mph?

Typically speedos on new cars read over by 7%-12%, meaning their rolling roadblock was probably travelling closer to 50mph unless they correctly callibrated them.

[84porsche]

Great discussion so far. My real complaint is that drivers are too busy doing other things as shown in the previous post. I think the law should enforce that driving is a privilege and not a right and get things cleaned up. Tires should be inspected on all trucks/cars annually. I can't tell you how many shreded tires I have avoided on roads. And plan and simple, if you want to talk on a phone, get a headset/speakerphone or pull over and talk. If we clean up the other things, then the roads are cleaner and safer and this is a good start in my opinion.

[Flatbutt1]

here in the people's republic of New Jersey the failure to stay right WILL get you a ticket. I've seen it happen waayyyy more than once. a rolling roadblock MIGHT get you cuffed and towed. seen that happen to groups of bikers.

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by 84porsche


Great discussion so far. My real complaint is that drivers are too busy doing other things as shown in the previous post. I think the law should enforce that driving is a privilege and not a right and get things cleaned up. Tires should be inspected on all trucks/cars annually. I can't tell you how many shreded tires I have avoided on roads. And plan and simple, if you want to talk on a phone, get a headset/speakerphone or pull over and talk. If we clean up the other things, then the roads are cleaner and safer and this is a good start in my opinion.

Driving is a priveledge? Whadda?

[Drago]

Originally posted by Jim Cesiro
I got ticketed for travelling 85 in a 70 in Georgia. I pulled out of the center lane to pass a slower moving car. When I encountered the slower car I was doing 77-80 MPH. I looked in my rearview and saw some faster cars coming. I pulled out to pass and sped up. I was nailed by a laser gun. Officer asked me why I was going so fast and I replied I was getting out of the way of the faster cars behind me. I was making a pass and getting out of the way.

I got a ticket for speeding. Yup, this video hits a sore spot with me. I was running with the flow of traffic and speeding up to get out of the way and move back over, that got me a ticket.

Here in WA the whole pull-out-and-speed-to-pass argument is solely reserved for single lane roads. If your on the freeway, it's illegal.

*Disclaimer: This is what the officer writing me the citation told me after I tried that excuse.

[Jeff Higgins]

What has been lost in this discussion (as good as it has been, by the way) is the veracity of this so-called "study". It was very clearly anything but.

This appears to be no more than a group of smart-a$$ college kids pulling a prank. They are using the "college study" pretense as a cover for this juvenile stunt. The results were entirely predictable and nothing was learned from this. There was no "study"; that much is utter b.s.

That this irresponsible stunt risked injury or death to unwilling (and unwitting) participants under uncontroled circumstances is unnacceptable. If in fact some "institute of higher learning" sponsored or condoned this "study", then some one should be in very big trouble. These students need to be severely disciplined by the school, and possibly even prosecuted by the state. Any faculty that had knowledge of this, and lent it an air of legitimacy by encouraging or at least not stopping it, needs to be severely disciplined by the school and possibly even prosecuted by the state.

These kids were risking other peoples' lives at worst, and injury at least. It's not good enough to plead "but we were going the speed limit". They very clearly knew full well the effect of their little rolling road block before they did this, and were reveling in it as it unfolded.

[Jims5543]

What I learned from the Video is that no one does the speed limit yet we get tickets for speeding as revenue generators and nothing more. Safety is not the issue. Because as shown in this video obeying the law is more dangerous than speeding. Unfortunatly speeding comes with the rish of selective enforcement (revenue generating) and a fine.

[gr8fl4porsche]

I think they should outlaw talking on the phone while driving and give us another 10mph on the highways.

My job involves talking on a cell phone while driving most of the time. If I'm on the road - I'm on the phone. Nothing would make me happier than to be forced to shut off the phone and just be able to cruise along listening to the radio. It would be like mini vacations from work everytime I headed out on a sales call.

Please write your state Senators and Congressmen to plead with them to outlaw cell phone use while driving - some of us could really use a break. Being in constant contact makes for a great business service tool but starts to suck bad after 15 years.

[450knotOffice]

As it has been explained to me (and the rest of us in "traffic school" by a retired police officer), this is the point, very simply:

- You are in violation of the law if you speed
- You are are also in violation of the law if you impede the flow of traffic in any lane other than the far right lane, even if you are driving at the posted speed limit.
- It's is Law Enforcement's job to enforce speed limits, not the general public's.

In other words, if you choose to drive slower than the flow of traffic even if you are at the speed limit, do it in the right lane only or you may be cited for obstructing the flow of traffic (the act is looked upon by the cops as taking the law into your own hands, which is not your job).

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
As it has been explained to me (and the rest of us in "traffic school" by a retired police officer), this is the point, very simply:

- You are in violation of the law if you speed
- You are are also in violation of the law if you impede the flow of traffic in any lane other than the far right lane, even if you are driving at the posted speed limit.
- It's is Law Enforcement's job to enforce speed limits, not the general public's.

In other words, if you choose to drive slower than the flow of traffic even if you are at the speed limit, do it in the right lane only or you may be cited for obstructing the flow of traffic (the act is looked upon by the cops as taking the law into your own hands, which is not your job).

Hubba Hubba. I need to come over and use things in yor house, or "borrow" items, while you stand there and do nothing because it would be taking the law into your own hands.

What about the nice truckers that moderate traffic when a road accident occurs, or merges for construction, etc. They are "restricting" traffic behind them. I apreciate it, and would not give them a ticket for it.

What these kids did was dangerous, but look at it this way, once they get traffic behind them, traffic is moving 55MPH. A cop cannot prove they where moving faster then 55MPH, so thus, he cannot prove they where blocking traffic. Jst looks like a huge chunk of cars going the speed limit.

[Moses]

Originally posted by Tervuren
... once they get traffic behind them, traffic is moving 55MPH. A cop cannot prove they where moving faster then 55MPH, so thus, he cannot prove they where blocking traffic.

From the Georgia Vehicle Code;

(d) No two vehicles shall impede the normal flow of traffic by
traveling side by side at the same time while in adjacent lanes,
provided that this Code section shall not be construed to prevent
vehicles traveling side by side in adjacent lanes because of
congested traffic conditions.

They were breaking the law.

[masraum]

Originally posted by island911
I don't believe that is accurate.

.. cops may say that to make you pay . .. but that doesn't mean it's law.

In Florida and Texas it's not legal to exceed the speed limit to pass. If you have to exceed the speed limit to pass then you shouldn't be passing. I believe it's true on a multilane or a 2 lane, but definitely on a two lane.

I've been to enough "driver training" courses to get rid of tickets to be pretty sure of this

[legion]

Can we all agree that:

1) Traffic laws are not currently designed to maximize road safety.
2) Traffic laws are currently designed to maximize revenue.

Just the discussion about the apparent conflict between lane usage and speeding laws points that the laws are (intentionally) confusing. Confusing laws don't lend themselves to safety.

[Jims5543]

Originally posted by Moses
From the Georgia Vehicle Code;

(d) No two vehicles shall impede the normal flow of traffic by
traveling side by side at the same time while in adjacent lanes,
provided that this Code section shall not be construed to prevent
vehicles traveling side by side in adjacent lanes because of
congested traffic conditions.

They were breaking the law.

Define Normal Flow.

Breaking the speed limit is normal flow? If you are doing the speed limit and obeying the law how can the law tell you to break the law in order to obey the law?

[Howard Agency]

I call BS. Define common courtesy. "Allow faster groups to play through"
90% of golfers will let you play through if they are behind, 90% of the SUV's will pull into a turnout (or make one) on Mulholland when they see you in their mirror. 10% just don't get it.

CA does have a law that you must pull over if you are 'impeding the flow of traffic' if more than 5 vehicles are trying to get by. Laws are made for people who never read the golden rule

[Tervuren]

Originally posted by Howard Agency
I call BS. Define common courtesy. "Allow faster groups to play through"
90% of golfers will let you play through if they are behind, 90% of the SUV's will pull into a turnout (or make one) on Mulholland when they see you in their mirror. 10% just don't get it.

CA does have a law that you must pull over if you are 'impeding the flow of traffic' if more than 5 vehicles are trying to get by. Laws are made for people who never read the golden rule

So then, if someone is breaking into your house, would you wish your neighbor to be courteous, and not tell anyone, lest the burgler who is breaking the law, and the privacy of your home, be inconvienced either by law enforcement, or by efforts on the part of the neighborrhood?

There is a difference between letting someone by when you are in a army truck that only goes 55MPH in a 60, If I'm drivng slow, I be sure to let them by.