Para Ordnance Warthog

[Jeff Higgins]

Long guns, especially rifles, make poor house guns. Too hard to turn around in a hall, manouver in other tight places, too much penetration, to much blast and flash.

Try this: Light that FN-FAL off at an indoor range with the lights off and no ear protection. See how long it takes you to regain your bearings. Now imagine you are home, you missed the guy or there are more than one. You're in big trouble. Especially since the bullet just went through every wall of your house, and every wall of your neighbor's house. Yikes; leave the rifles for their intended purpose.

Shotguns, and even long barreled pistols, share some of the rifle's shortcomings. The shotgun is too hard to manouver. It and the pistol are too easy to grab. A short pistol or revolver, held close to the body, is easy to retain.

1911's are great if you are an enthusiast that likes to practice with it and become familiar with it. My wife is not. She needs to be able to use it, too. The house gun will alway be a revolver for me.

[id10t]

Jeff - good points. The Plan is to get daughter from her room, into sons' room (wall phone is there). All I care about will be behind me, with a long(er) hall way in front of me. If someone starts coming down the hall, they will get to meet 20 of my little friends. No neighbors to worry about.

Havent' done any night shooting with the FAL, but have done plenty with many other guns. Not a big deal. Hearing will be a *****, but mine is pretty bad anyway.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by id10t
You weenies with your little pistols...

My house gun is the FAL

That's just barely a FAL.

This, is a FAL.

[FrayAdjacent911]

For home defense, I have a CZ75B with 16 rounds of 9mm in my nightstand, and a Beretta CX4 Storm in the study closet with two 20 round mags on hand (9mm). The Storm is STUPID accurate and dead nuts reliable. I would use this carbine for home defense.

I also do not see a problem with having or even carrying a 1911 in Condition 1 (cocked and locked). It was meant to be carried that way.

I've also found myself to be amazingly interested in the FN PS90. I do question the effectiveness of the 5.7x28 round... but heck, you can have 50 of them on tap! Plus the form factor is very interesting to me. Too bad they cost $1500, and I can't scrounge that much scratch just yet.

[fastpat]

The only issue with carrying a 1911 in condition ! is with older models, without firing pin blocks, the gun can fire if dropped on a hard surface barrel down.

The other thing I see is that the Warthog needs an ambidextrous thumb safety, a cheap enhancement.

[Rick Lee]

I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 1911 cocked and locked. I just don't think I'd leave one laying around the house. In fact, I will be carrying one soon, if the one CCR is building for me ever gets finished.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by FrayAdjacent911
I've also found myself to be amazingly interested in the FN PS90.

That's my fantasy weapon too. I think you need a special federal dealers license to own one, level 3 or something like that?

EDIT: I just did a little search, there is now a civilian "semi-automatic" version for sale.

[FrayAdjacent911]

Originally posted by kach22i
That's my fantasy weapon too. I think you need a special federal dealers license to own one, level 3 or something like that?

EDIT: I just did a little search, there is now a civilian "semi-automatic" version for sale.

The PS90 is a semi auto version with a 16" barrel, so us civvies can own 'em. The P90 is the full auto version that we will can't own!

Although, depending on your state (michigan, you probably can't) you can get a PS 90 and SBR it (short barrel rifle, cut it to the short length) and have as close to a P90. Also depending on your state, you can get the 50 round magazines)

[nostatic]

Easton 34/30 Hammer. Very effective at short range. Never a FTF. Low ammo costs.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally posted by fastpat
The only issue with carrying a 1911 in condition ! is with older models, without firing pin blocks, the gun can fire if dropped on a hard surface barrel down.

The other thing I see is that the Warthog needs an ambidextrous thumb safety, a cheap enhancement.

They will do so in condition two (hammer down on a loaded chamber) as well. The resting hammer gives a false sense of security; all it does is "look" better. Most folks don't understand the inertial firing pin and how it works, and don't realize it is just as dangerous with the hammer down.

I have never been big on ambidexterous safeties. When carrying, that puts it on the outside for a right hander, and it wipes "off" far too easily. I think they are more fluff than necessity. It's hard to imagine a defensive situation where one would be an advantage. I have never seen anyone that has one that could shoot well enough to defend himself with either hand anyway, outside of IPSC competitors. Everyone wants what the big kids have, though, whether it does them any good or not.

Condition three (hammer down on an empty chamber) is touted as the "safest" way to carry a 1911. Until you need to use it. Then it is very apparently the most dangerous way to carry it, at least for the guy carrying it. It is definitely safer for the intended target, however.

I read an account years ago in a gun mag about a young kid (the writer) fresh out of boot camp. Apparently, his sergeant carried his 1911 "cocked and locked" everywhere he went. Our young private thought that rather dangerous, and said as much to the sergeant. The sergeant's reply was something like "you're goddamn right it's dangerous; otherwise I wouldn't be carrying the SOB!"

[jyl]

What do you guys think about the SFS system?

In one way, it is no "safer" than cocked and locked. Safety on, pull trigger, no fire. Safety off, pull trigger, fire. Same function.

On the other hand, if the safety gets inadvertently disengaged, e.g. by an ill-fitting holster or accidentally wiping off an ambi safety, perhaps you'd notice the hammer springing up. And perhaps it allows for a smaller hammer, carried "down", making the gun more concealable?

[red-beard]

My one 1911 with an ambi safety, the right side likes to stick in my back. The ambi safety will go "bye-bye" when I get a chance to fix it.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by red-beard
My one 1911 with an ambi safety, the right side likes to stick in my back. The ambi safety will go "bye-bye" when I get a chance to fix it.

The only thing I don't like about the ambi safety is that the gun is slightly wider at that point. I have SOB and a strong side holsters, both of which place the left side safety next to me, the ambi safety is on the off side. I'd think the ambi safety would only bother lefties. I've never had it "wipe" off, but that doesn't mean it can't happen, but as I say the side that is most likely to contact something to "wipe off" is the left side.

[HardDrive]

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins


Try this: Light that FN-FAL off at an indoor range with the lights off and no ear protection. See how long it takes you to regain your bearings. Now imagine you are home, you missed the guy or there are more than one. You're in big trouble.

Bah! No trouble. Just keep the gun aimed in the guys general direction and pull the trigger 29 more times

(Sure hope there aren't any neighbors houses in that direction)

[FrayAdjacent911]

A series 80 1911 (firing pin block) is perfectly safe to carry Condition 1. You could drop it from an airliner on it's muzzle and it won't go off.

Even without the pin safety in place, you'd have to drop the gun on it's muzzle from much more than 6 feet, and unless you're tucking it in your hat, you're probably just fine.

From Condition 1, the 1911 (and just about any other pistol that you can do it with) is very quick to deploy. When I carry my CZ75B at IDPA or carbine matches, I carry it Condition 1 and have never had issues, or have never feared an unintentional discharge.

[JonT]

No match for my .88 magnum. Shoots through schools.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by JonT
No match for my .88 magnum. Shoots through schools.

finally, some sense brought into the argument. If it shoots through retirement homes too, we've got both sides of the problem surrounded from the middle.

[Overpaid Slacker]

Not a fan of the PS90; the trigger is very stiff, with lots of take-up and no adjustment; the ergonomics are awkward (what to do with the front hand? that little nub of a handle is useless) and, though it looks the business, for $1500 there are a lot cooler firearms to own, IMHO.

Plus, 5.7 is not easy to find right now. A friend bought the new FN Five SeveN, which is a neato gun and all, but at $25.00 for 50 rounds, it's a bit esoteric and expensive.

Now, the FS2000 is another story... .223; I'll take two, please.

I've got an H&K USP .45 with an M3 light/laser that is the Condition 1 home weapon; and a Walther PPK .380 that I leave elsewhere in the house with a full magazine and round chambered (if the safety is on, the gun is de-cocked).

I do agree that the Storm is a very good home defense weapon, but I don't like the trigger mech, and it's not user-adjustable. I'd probably get one in .45 rather than 9mm if it was going to be a primary home defense weapon, though.

JP

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Overpaid Slacker
Now, the FS2000 is another story... .223; I'll take two, please.

Nice, and it's good looking too.

Article taking about both:
http://www.nrapublications.org/TAR/Bullpups.asp

[rcm]

The new 1911's for ccw are about the safest. Thumb and grip safety, most comfortable for me. No ambi thumb safety.

My duty Sig has no safety, although it is DAO.