Unconditional surrender, The Isreal solution

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Rob Channell

Spoken like a man with a clue.......

I agree, Tim.

Based on what shred of evidence? There certainly isn't any known facts in evidence that muslims are prepared to invade America.

[techweenie]

It would be much easier for Israel to carpet bomb a Lebanese town than it is to trace where missles are being launched and to send a precision bomb to that precise coordinate -- after spending a day spreading leaflets telling the population to leave because a bombing is imminent.

Yes, that's a nice fairy tale. Ports and power plants in Lebanon were bombed. Bridges bombed. Neighborhoods bombed. A convoy of refugees was bombed. A UN observer post was bombed. Nearly 600 Lebanese killed, last I heard. And the last Israeli report I heard seemed to indicate about 40% of the victims were civilians.

It was a good 10-12 days before this story of 'dropping leaflets on neighborhoods' surfaced. I would like to see some independent corroboration that is actually happening.

The other side is pumping out propaganda, as well. At least one child's corpse was paraded around by a "rescue worker" for -- what appears to be -- 4 hours. There are 5 or 6 different photos of the dead child circulating various news services.

"The first casualty when war comes is truth". Hiram W Johnson

[techweenie]

Originally posted by Rob Channell
Spoken like a man with a clue.......

I agree, Tim.

Is this just another paranoid fantasy, or is there a shred of evidence to support this?

Because we played a major role in creating the 'radical Islamists' and arming them. We then abandoned them and supported governments that suppressed them or attacked governments that sheltered them.

The one tactic we haven't tried is leaving them alone.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by techweenie
Is this just another paranoid fantasy, or is there a shred of evidence to support this?

Because we played a major role in creating the 'radical Islamists' and arming them. We then abandoned them and supported governments that suppressed them or attacked governments that sheltered them.

The one tactic we haven't tried is leaving them alone.

Ever notice how we didn't have any foreign enemy to speak of (apart from England, when we seceded from their rule) until the 20th century, coincidently when we became interventionists?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by fastpat
I reckon the Israeli's should simply even up the odds by leaving their air force on the ground, leaving their tanks in their paddocks, and only take the weapons that correspond with what Hezbollah is known to have. Then it would be a true test of courage on both sides in the fight.

But as long as the Israeli's hide behind armor and in aircraft, which is a form of cowardice, the opposition will use whatever tactics it can to compensate.

Amazing words from a man who has armed himself to the teeth as protection from the other rubes in rural South Carolina.

[snowman]

I am a simple person, Kill all the bastards before they kill you, that simple.

[jyl]

No reason for the Israelis to invite a "true test of courage" by grounding their planes. It is a war, not a sporting contest.

As I've posted before, I'm not so interested in the morality of the war in Lebanon. That way lies endless, unresolvable debate.

I'm more interested in the practicality. Are the Israelis doing what they need to do achieve their goals? Now that I see Israel sending 10,000 troops into Lebanon, I think they are moving in the right (practical) direction.

As for Hezbollah, they seem very practical. AFAIK they are doing exactly what they need to do to achieve their goals.

[RoninLB]

Terrorists couldn't exist without population support or apathy.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by RoninLB
Terrorists couldn't exist without population support or apathy.

Or oppression....

[cool_chick]

Plus fear

You think the crips exist because of population support or apathy?

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally posted by cool_chick
Plus fear

You think the crips exist because of population support or apathy?

In many hoods in LA they are very popular - same reason why the Mafia had such a strong hold (and still may) in cities in the NE. They provide a level of sercurity that many folks do not get from the police.

[speeder]

Originally posted by LubeMaster77
In many hoods in LA they are very popular - same reason why the Mafia had such a strong hold (and still may) in cities in the NE. They provide a level of sercurity that many folks do not get from the police.

This is absolute nonsense, where did you hear it? There is none of the kind of security provided by old line Italian mafia families or the attendant popularity in the communities with modern street gangs. Just none at all. And the reason is because they do not have a code of conduct like the Italians did that kept them from committing street-level crime against their own people or selling drugs to school children, etc....

The Hezbollah, OTOH, besides being a political party w/ an armed militia are the biggest provider of social services in southern Lebanon such as schools, clinics, hospitals, etc. and they are extremely popular in their country. Unfortunately, the current conflict has bolstered this considerably.

[RoninLB]

" Terrorists couldn't exist without population support or apathy."

"Or oppression"
"Plus fear. You think the crips exist because of population support or apathy?"


You have no level of understanding to comment.

Emotional responses are great and may you love all the people around you.
..but leave me out of it.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Tim Hancock

Speeder, I think it is safe to say that my right wing opinions and your ????wing opinions will never coincide when it comes to picking sides in a fight.

I think you got it all wrong Tim.

Denis has more than opinions. He's a textbook example of white guilt. Pick an issue and he'll follow the profile 100%. The more intense the issue the bigger the cage he's in. Hey, different strokes for different folks.

that said, I believe he's a good friend.

[techweenie]

You are either lying or you don't know what you're talking about.

July 12 - soldiers captured - conflict begins
July 13 - "planes dropped leaflets on southern Beirut warning residents to keep clear of Hizbullah positions"
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0714/3138014947HM1LEBANON.html




Translation:

To all Lebanese residents

Following the repeated terrorist actions of the Hezbollah, which has reached the efforts intented on finding a better future for Lebanon, the Israeli army will act in Lebanon for all the duration necessary in order to protect the Israeli people.
For your security and in order to avoid harm to civilian people who are not implied with Hezbollah, avoid being in places where Hezbollah is located and where it operates.

It is necessary that you know that the continuation of the terrorist actions against Israel is a double edged blade for you and for Lebanon.

Signed Israel

Source: http://lebanonheartblogs.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-nice.html

Did you read what you linked to? It appears you did not, but it might be a good idea.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by RoninLB
" Terrorists couldn't exist without population support or apathy."

"Or oppression"
"Plus fear. You think the crips exist because of population support or apathy?"


You have no level of understanding to comment.

Emotional responses are great and may you love all the people around you.
..but leave me out of it.

LOL

Emotional responses? Sociological studies were part of my formal education. Nothing emotional about my response.

And I beg to differ about my "level of understanding."


What you guys describe about the Muslim people is some species that is not human.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by cool_chick
LOL

Emotional responses? Sociological studies were part of my formal education. Nothing emotional about my response.

And I beg to differ about my "level of understanding."


What you guys describe about the Muslim people is some species that is not human.

that's great info.. I just called the White House.
here you go.

"Our administration takes these matters seriously and your opinion was heard loud and clear here in Washington. You'll be pleased to learn that, thanks to the concerns of citizens like yourself, we are creating a new division of the Terrorist Retraining Program, to be called the "Liberals Accept Responsibility for Killers" program, or LARK for short.


In accordance with the guidelines of this new program, we have decided to place one terrorist under your personal care. Your personal detainee has been selected and scheduled for transportation under heavily armed guard to your residence next Monday.

Ali Mohammed Ahmed bin Mahmud (you can just call him Ahmed) is to be cared for pursuant to the standards you personally infered to in your PP OT reply of complaint. It will likely be necessary for you to hire some assistant caretakers.

We will conduct weekly inspections to ensure that your standards of care for Ahmed are commensurate with those you so strongly alluded to in your reply.

Although Ahmed is a sociopath and extremely violent, we hope that your "level of understanding will help. Your adopted terrorist is extremely proficient in hand-to-hand combat and can extinguish human life with such simple items as a pencil or nail clippers. We advise that you do not ask him to demonstrate these skills at your next yoga group. He is also expert at making a wide variety of explosive devices from common household products, so you may wish to keep those items locked up, unless (in your opinion) this might offend him.

Ahmed will not wish to interact with you or your daughters (except sexually), since he views females as a subhuman form of property. This is a particularly sensitive subject for him and he has been known to show violent tendencies around women who fail to comply with the new dress code that he will recommend as more appropriate attire. I'm sure you will come to enjoy the anonymity offered by the burka -- over time.

Just remember that it is all part of "respecting his culture and his
religious beliefs" -- wasn't that how you would put it?

We truly appreciate it when folks like you keep us informed. You take good care of Ahmed - and remember..we'll be watching.

Good luck!
Cordially, your friend,
Don Rumsfeld

[techweenie]

Nice try. Of course I read it. Some Lebanese blame Hezbullah, most blame Israel. It's interesting to read viewpoints other than that found in your local newspaper, isn't it. The fact is that you lied and I called you out. Next time you make up stories, remember that the Internet makes it easy to debunk your BS.

To have an intelligent debate on this forum requires discussing truths -- not making things up to support your position.

Ronin, that's brilliant! Haha.

As I suspected, you did not read your links.

The first mentioned that Olmert 'announced' to the Lebanese that he was attacking Hezbollah. Meaning what? He stated it on Israeli TV? Radio? What did it mean? Hezbollah is in a region, not in 'neighborhoods.' The inference is that the entire region where Hezbollah is operating would have to be evacuated. Not realistic, practical and certainly not reasonable.

Same with the leaflets supposedly dropped before bombing. Read what it says. Israel does not know where Hezbollah is, specifically. Maybe local Lebanese do -- maybe not. Again, it's a general evacuation demand.

Neither the broadcast nor the leaflets are useful instructions. That's why civilian causalties are estimated at such a high percentage.

The whole idea of "surgical strikes" is some kind of comic book fantasy. If a bomb falls in your neighborhood, targeting people who are indistinguishable from you, except for their ideas, lots of innocent people are going to die.

The Arab world was not on Hezbollah's side in general until after about a week of Israeli bombing of civilians, tourists, etc. Then opinion shifted.

[techweenie]

For anyone who thinks the situation is as simple as the PR machines would have you believe, here's something that will challenge everything you "know" if you actually read what it says and implies:

http://tinyurl.com/jb3y4

(for those averse to clicking or doing any kind of research, this is from a reserve IDF officer talking about working with Arabs and specifically the Israel-Hezbollah connection.)

[Halm]

Originally posted by techweenie
The whole idea of "surgical strikes" is some kind of comic book fantasy. If a bomb falls in your neighborhood, targeting people who are indistinguishable from you, except for their ideas, lots of innocent people are going to die.

Correct, to a point. a.) Even the idiot that runs the UN admonished Hezbollah for hiding among innocent civilians. 2.) Carpet bombing would cheaper for Israel and have a higher physological effect on the locals.

Originally posted by techweenie
The Arab world was not on Hezbollah's side in general until after about a week of Israeli bombing of civilians, tourists, etc. Then opinion shifted.

Again, correct, to a point. Not a single Arab Jew, Christian or Hindu supported Hezbollah. It was only the Muslim Arabs that provided support to Hezbollah. Iran and Syria continue to provide arms and supplies.

If you want to know how bad this situation may become, take a look at this ABC News story.

Here is another way of looking at this. Imagine _____ (you fill in the name), the worst possible extreme right winged religious leader in the US becomes President for 20 years. That is exactly what we have with the radical Muslims. They are accountable to no one and they will find a way to exert their will.

And to be clear, their will is "convert" or "die."