Wow. Just Wow. Kevin Tillman speaks out - Page 5

Moneyguy1 · 10-23-2006, 05:40 PM

Please keep criticism of the Tillman tragedy far away from Arizona. Uttering here might just result in (at best) a trip to emergency.

BTW...No one enlists with the objective of getting killed, guys....at that age we were all ten feet tall and bulletproof.

Rodeo · 10-23-2006, 05:40 PM

I watched Hardball tonight and a bunch of people were saying things to try to influence the election. They said a lot of things, and many quite clearly "hated" the president, since they disagreed with some of his policies.

How utterly deplorable of them. It's just beyond belief that someone would actually say anything now, with two weeks to go, that might impact the election. How un-American. How deplorable.

fastpat · 10-23-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
How deplorable of you to suggest that some side might lose the election. Are you trying to infuence the election? Why did you wait till now to bring up your suggesiton? I find the timing of your announcement, two weeks before the election, deplorable.

Of course, I'm doubly deplorable, I want both large parties to lose, in every race.

Jeff Higgins · 10-23-2006, 06:24 PM

Bob, no one here is critcising the Tillmans. Pat made the ultimate sacrifice for his country, for each and every one of us. Kevin has every right to say how he feels about that, about his country, or about anything he pleases. That's one of the very rights his brother died to preserve. I cannot imagine the grief of losing my older brother under any circumstances; the burden Kevin and the whole Tillman family bears is beyond my imagination. I think we all feel for them.

I just find it sad that their loss is apparently being used by others in a thinly veiled bid to gain some votes in the upcoming election. The timing is beyond suspicious. The wording, even if it does express Kevin's feelings (and I think it probably does) is far too scripted, to the point of having likely been coached, or "scrubbed" if not written entirely by some one else.

Even here, in our own little PPOT microcosm of the nation, we see Rodeo trying to use this tragedy to try to push his own agenda. He is trying to suggest that anyone who dissagrees with his selfish use of this tragedy actually hates Kevin Tillman for saying what he said. Of course, anyone following this thread can see that is not the case. Kevin Tillman, and his point of view, deserve our respect, whether we agree with him or not. Rodeo, and the opportunists he represents in real life, simply do not.

Rodeo · 10-23-2006, 06:33 PM

Got it Bob?

Kevin Tillman can say anything he wants. But anyone that repeats his message to a wider audience is scum. He should have written a letter and put it in a drawer.

That's the American way.

Moneyguy1 · 10-23-2006, 06:33 PM

Jeff

The Tillman tragedy is still an open wound here. I object to anyone using it for political gain, but Pat (Tillman) is only one of many who have lost their lives, been disabled and no longer whole because of this war.

Perhaps the other 2,800 dead and 20,000+ wounded should have their stories shown as well, but like the argument about CNN's showing of the "terrorist tapes", the people must be kept away from what war is actually like. It must be kept sanitary; not even pictures of coffins being loaded into Air Force Transports.

CS119laCoS · 10-23-2006, 07:01 PM

I think if Kevin believes Pat would have agreed with and approved the letter, it's great.

If Kevin believes Pat would not have agreed with and would have disapproved of the letter, then Kevin's a tool.

Jim Richards · 10-23-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CS119laCoS
I think if Kevin believes Pat would have agreed with and approved the letter, it's great.

If Kevin believes Pat would not have agreed with and would have disapproved of the letter, then Kevin's a tool.

SoCal911SC, are you serious?

Jeff Higgins · 10-23-2006, 07:09 PM

I'm sure it is, Bob. I have to wonder if, within the family, the new found limelight this publicity brings might be a bit like picking at that wound. I just hate to see a family's grief used like this.

I'm sure we would all be enlightened if the rest of the voices could be heard; voices of the families directly affected by this mess. I wonder how many would come down on the anti-war side of the discussion, and how many would come down on the pro-war side. I'm sure many families find solace in their belief that it was "worth it", just as many feel betrayed by their country because they feel it was not. I'm sure it is a very personal thing for each family, and each member of each family.

Politicizing it outside of the family must be very uncomfortable for them. I know if a similar tragedy struck my family it would be. Even if I agreed with their position, the day any kind of politcal hacks came knocking on my door in the hopes of using my story would be a pretty rough day for them. I would know full well, in spite of their best schmoozing, that the attention would be short-lived. The promises of using it to raise public awareness about the war would ring hollow; their real intent is to use me to win their election. When that's over, we're over. Forgotten. They are looking for their next big thing.

Rodeo · 10-23-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
***Politicizing it outside of the family must be very uncomfortable for them.***

That's probably why they released the statement to the press.

Can you imagine people politicizing that strong political statement? I guess some just have no shame ... I'm sure Mr. Tillman wrote that hoping that no one would ever see it.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by dd74
Honestly, Tillman's letter would have much more impact if we were in the throes of a draft. Until then, he reads as if he is only a disgruntled soldier who had a brother who was a SS for the Arizona Cardinals.

The facts can't be mitigated; the Tillmans signed up; Pat went to Afghanistan, where OBL was located at the time, shielded by Taliban.

It's fantasy to think that had Iraq not started, there is a likelihood Pat Tillman would not have been killed.

......

+1

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by CS119laCoS
I think if Kevin believes Pat would have agreed with and approved the letter, it's great.

If Kevin believes Pat would not have agreed with and would have disapproved of the letter, then Kevin's a tool.

+1.....a bought and paid for tool...using his dead brother's fame and untimely death for profit and personal gain.

widgeon13 · 10-24-2006, 03:50 AM

Did someone think that we would go to war and not have any dead and wounded? Can't figure if that is naive or stupid?

Wrecked944 · 10-24-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by widgeon13
Did someone think that we would go to war and not have any dead and wounded? Can't figure if that is naive or stupid?

(CBS/AP) Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says he warned President Bush before U.S. troops invaded Iraq that the United States would sustain casualties but that Mr. Bush responded, "Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties."

cool_chick · 10-24-2006, 04:33 AM

Damn anti-american traitor!

Rodeo · 10-24-2006, 04:47 AM

And fintstone shows up to call the soldier, who fought bravely and lost his brother, a "bought and paid for tool."

Why would fint say such a thing? Well, he criticized the administration that has bought and paid for fintstone many times over.

bivenator · 10-24-2006, 11:04 AM

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/09/05/tillman0911/
Here is the link to the Sports Illustrated article. I give great insight into Pat and Kevin as well as some of the family dynamics. The firefight in which he was killed in reviewed as well. Read this article, or you can continue to speculate without any real knowledge. That is how we roll on the PPOT.

fintstone · fintstone's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Rodeo
And fintstone shows up to call the soldier, who fought bravely and lost his brother, a "bought and paid for tool."

Why would fint say such a thing? Well, he criticized the administration that has bought and paid for fintstone many times over.

He is not the only one who has fought...or lost a brother...and I believe he accepted his military pay the same as I. He is no better, nor does his opinion carry any more weight than any other soldier...Of course, you would not understand.

cool_chick · 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fintstone
He is not the only one who has fought...or lost a brother...and I believe he accepted his military pay the same as I. He is no better, nor does his opinion carry any more weight than any other soldier...Of course, you would not understand.

But of course his opinion carries less weight than another soldier. If he said what you wanted to hear, Fint, wouldn't you be putting this guy on a pedestal? But because he says what you don't want to hear, you ASSume he's "just a tool" for whatever....

Can't people simply hold a different opinion than you and NOT be some "tool" in your massive conspiracy? Maybe he gave it some thought and arrived at this opinion all on his own (albiet opposing yours...so sorry about that

)...????

When Bush has some soldier spotlighted at the State of the Union, are they "tools?"

Jim Richards · 10-25-2006, 04:55 AM

Flintstone, for those of us that "would not understand," well, pretty much anything about this Iraq war you seem to so dearly love, please tell us how your personal experience in combat gives you a better perspective than Kevin Tillman or any of the returning soldiers that are no longer behind this war? Serving in the Navy during the last few years of Vietnam, and a few years beyond, unfortunately didn't afford me any direct combat perspective. Maybe somehow I'll learn to see through your eyes. Thanks.