Never thought I would agree with Cal Thomas but ??

[74-911]

Of all the pre-election polls, punditry, analysis and forecasts, one stands out. It is a new CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation that found an overwhelming number of Americans (78 percent) believes "our system of government is broken."

Democrats predictably blame Republicans for this as part of their strategy for returning to majority status in Congress. Just as predictably, Republicans blame Democrats for being "obstructionists" and not letting all that good legislation hatched by the GOP get through.

It isn't actually our "system" of government that is broken. The Constitution established an excellent system from which contemporary leaders regularly seem to depart. The Founders gave us the parchment equivalent of a GPS system that, if followed, gets us where we ought to go, but if ignored, causes us to become lost. No, the system has worked quite well until recently. Rather, it is the way Republicans, now, and Democrats when they last had the majority, have made a mess of it. The system is crumbling under the weight of too many expectations.

Members of both parties have asked government to do for them what they should first be doing for themselves. And instead of telling people about self-sufficiency, government has subsidized and encouraged self-indulgence. Instead of telling religious people — conservative Christians especially — that government can't do more for them than the G-d they claim to worship, both parties (Republicans more than Democrats, but Democrats are trying to catch up) have allowed, even encouraged, believers to think politicians can help build the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.

Instead of government as a last resort, too many (Republicans included) turn to government as a first resource. Government was not designed to carry the burdens placed on it by the public, lawyers and lobbyists.

The Founders created a system of limited government. It is not functioning like one today because we now view government as unlimited. For many, faith in government is now stronger than faith in G-d, in practice, if not in theory. At least G-d tells us He loves us. Government never can. Our faith in government to rid the world of totalitarian regimes, while at the same time caring for children and grandparents whose welfare should be the first responsibility of their families, was always destined to disappoint. Democrats tell us if we return them to power things will be better. No they won't, because the problem isn't which party has a majority. It is far deeper than that.

In his book, "The Future of Freedom: Illiberal Democracy at Home and Abroad," Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, writes that expanding the number of congressional committees and subcommittees (which began in 1974) and opening up the system to more public access had a downside. The post-Watergate reforms were meant to "make Congress more open and responsive," writes Zakaria. "And so it has become — to money, lobbyists, and special interests."

"From an institution dominated by 20 or so powerful leaders, Congress has evolved into a collection of 535 independent political entrepreneurs who run the system with their individual interests uppermost — i.e., to get re-elected." Once, members of Congress met behind closed doors for "mark-ups" of legislation. There, deals were made. Today's openness means that lobbyists literally monitor the members during this process and if they hear something they don't like, they reach for their cell phones and within minutes, a special interest has swamped the member's office with calls and faxes.

In his book, "Demosclerosis," journalist Jonathan Rauch draws on the insights of economist Mancur Olson to argue (and Zakaria quotes him in his book), "that the rise of interest groups has made American government utterly dysfunctional. Washington is unable to trim back — let alone eliminate — virtually any government program, no matter how obsolete."

That will not change, no matter which party has the majority after the election, unless both parties in Congress decide to repair it. Both Republicans and Democrats helped break the system and voters, as well as non-voters, let them get away with it. We wanted government goodies. They wanted to get re-elected. Lobbyists wanted money. It was an unholy and unhealthy alliance.

Government is like Humpty Dumpty. Unless there is real reform, all the Democratic horses, just like all the Republican horses, won't be able to put government back together again.

[Seahawk]

There are some gems in the article.

The Founders created a system of limited government. It is not functioning like one today because we now view government as unlimited. For many, faith in government is now stronger than faith in G-d, in practice, if not in theory.

And God can't appropriate funds to enthrall the populace. Follow the money.

[Bill Verburg]

Once the 'pols' figured out that they could buy votes to keep themselves in office in perpetuity w/ other peoples money, it was the death knell for this country.

[Seahawk]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Once the 'pols' figured out that they could buy votes to keep themselves in office in perpetuity w/ other peoples money, it was the death knell for this country.

Perfectly stated...with economy How I wish you were wrong.

[tabs]

Systems that get a taste for money virtually NEVER reform themselves, they keep on slipping down the ladder of virtue. Each succeeding generation becoming more corrupt tha the last until the system fails, or the money runs out.

A Dictatorship is the next thing to happen. Either Congresional Gridlock makes Legislation impossible to the point where the system is failing, and a strong hand is needed to cut through the log jam. An economic shock hits the system, with resulting Political instability, and a strong hand is neede to return things to normal. Or the election system is seen as corrupt, and neither side is willing to back off its claims and to settle the dispute someone is appointed.

For a lest the first coupla generations of Authoritarian rule the semblence of a Democracy will be maintained, to reassure the people that all is well, but as time goes on the trapping will fade away.

[Moneyguy1]

Watch out for a repeat of Germany in the early 30s.

Too many similarities to ignore.

Just my opinion.

[pwd72s]

"The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government, they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten, that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time it is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction of the sale of stolen goods."
-H.L. Mencken

[tabs]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Watch out for a repeat of Germany in the early 30s.

Too many similarities to ignore.

Just my opinion.

Now WHO IS MR GLOOMY GUS FULL OF DOOM AND GLOOM....maybe U should start of a regime of Psychedelic Drugs as Dutchy suggests to pull U outa your funk.

[Moneyguy1]

tabs..
Never said I was not imbued with a touch of gloom and doom. You, of all people, spouting your vast historical knowledge, should be aware of the dangers of a government creating enemies in order to consolidate power; finding common foes to reduce individual freedoms and so on. The only element missing is a failing economy, and deficit spending may even supply that sometime in the future.

Get real. Open your eyes. We are not there yet, but it could happen. Other republics have fallen when the people get too complacent about their government's activities "on their behalf".

My solution is to make people aware so it does not happen. Yours is to surrender to fate.

[tabs]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
[B]tabs..
Never said I was not imbued with a touch of gloom and doom. You, of all people, spouting your vast historical knowledge, should be aware of the dangers of a government creating enemies in order to consolidate power; finding common foes to reduce individual freedoms and so on. The only element missing is a failing economy, and deficit spending may even supply that sometime in the future.
B]

Here is a difference in perspective...GW DIDN'T Creat an enemy so that HE COULD CONSOLIDATE POWER. There never would have been a Homeland Security Admin, the passing of a bill that amends the No Torture rule or the ignoring of Habeas Corpus, Gitmo etc if there had been no 911.

911 came so close to toppling the financial system that to ensure that another event which could topple the system doesn't occur the Admin is willing to resort to these measure. I see it as acts of desperation and fear of what could happen rather than maligant design. If U look at it that way, it becomes understandable. Consider this why would ANY POLITICAN be willing to take the unrelenting flak and expenditure of political capital for such measures unless there was a dire need or fear? GW coulda been a fat and dumb happy camper getting all he and his buds want out of the govt without taking the flak. They got lower Taxes before 911, which they wouldn't have gotten after 911.

Now Iraq is a different matter...but it doesn't involve the Consolidating Power issue...Iraq was unfinished biz for the Neocon crowd...they wanted Sadam gone back in 1992. So this is a long term thing with certain elelments of the admin. Unfortunately GW listened to them and it has turned into a cluster fk....

In reality the issue of Iraq and the war on Terror are 2 different things...the GW crowd want to link the 2 issues for justification, the Dems want to link the 2 issues in saying we have created more Terrorists by going into Iraq. Neither is really accurate.

[tabs]

The problem withthe "consolidation of Power" is not in the immediate futher, but down the road 50 years or so. It will have become normalized by then and somebody will come up with the bright idea of using those powers for their own political gain. Today no body would even really think to use the power for their own gain, besides the flak form the media and opposing political party would creat a ***** storm.

[Moneyguy1]

"Neither is really accurate"

But which is closer to the truth?

[tabs]

Did U see the reaction of the Palesteinians after 911..dancing in the streets...They allready hated America, now it just gives them one more justification. In Iraq the Sunnis and Sh!ite Militias are killing off the foreign fighters...they see them as opportunists killing Iraqis.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by tabs
Systems that get a taste for money virtually NEVER reform themselves, they keep on slipping down the ladder of virtue. Each succeeding generation becoming more corrupt tha the last until the system fails, or the money runs out.

That very nicely describes government *and* organized religion...

[red-beard]

You want to see money grubbing in Religion? Come on down to Texas. We have non-denominational 'churches' with 10,000+ stadium seating with motor bikes flying through the air on stage. They actually advertise these on TV!

http://www.fotw.org/

Didn't the old Chinese dynasty system have a life of aproximately 200 years. After about 200, a good guy would overthrow the corrupt dynasty, then 200 years later it was fully corrupt, ripe for over-throw.

[Rondinone]

Originally posted by Bill Verburg
Once the 'pols' figured out that they could buy votes to keep themselves in office in perpetuity w/ other peoples money, it was the death knell for this country.

See my sig...