Grady, I have no 'advice' to add on a subject I know nothing about (other's have offered excellent suggestions imo). I just wanted to wish you the best of luck...I'm sure you'll do the right thing...foster parents are 'special' people!

Guys,

Thanks for all the good advice. My current mission is to gain more information and insight on his condition. I think this may be an act of desperation, possibly inspired by his parole officer for him to reconnect with significant people in his life.

I have asked him to make me a detailed time-line of his life in order to help him with a résumé. He is also to send me copies of all court papers and other so I can evaluate the situation. Once I receive that, I’ll send him a General Power of Attorney form to fill out. This will allow me to find all the legal information and confirm what he tells me. I’ll also send a grocery certificate and a small bank check to the motel that should help short term survival.

Mid-week I’ll see if I can take him to a long brunch if he isn’t working. He is living about 1 ½ hours south of me.

I’m going to make it clear that I am willing to help a little but he is not to show up at my doorstep. (I haven’t moved or changed phone numbers for 20+ years.)

Once I confirm the situation (and possibly talk to his parole officer), I’ll support him for a month or so. My immediate project would be to find him a job and living situation with some caveats.

I suspect some may be regular visits with a parole person, use of antibuse and/or a 12-step program and regular contact by phone. Perhaps I can get a cheep cell phone for him. I understand that one of the more difficult things for people in this situation is regaining contact in life. (If we are so distressed when the Pelican server goes down, think how it must be with no phone, car, bank card or permanent address. :eek: )

I think one of the most difficult aspects will be what he is to do with his off-work time. Don’s “Idle hands….” Perhaps this is where I can help get him involved in some things. I like stomachmonkey’s suggestions for giving back to the community. That would put him in contact with the right people in a cooperative situation. I agree that even at 36, getting a GED is a worthwhile endeavor for his self-esteem and staying in the right direction.


But first things first; gather information, meet with him and then see.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Please keep the ideas coming. I’ll report what happens and ask for more ideas. I’m in uncharted territory.

Best,
Grady :)

I'll probably get flamed for being the dissenter here, but here goes:

I admire your charity, but you're probably being taken advantage of. I'd perhaps help him get set up with a job, but tell him in no uncertain terms that's where the generousity ends. He's not sleeping in your place, you're not giving him money, you're not giving him a car, etc.

I hate to take such a "trust nobody" attitude, but there are too many people out there that skate through life by doing nothing other than taking advantage of peoples' guilt and generousity.

Haven't you done enough for this guy already? I mean, if you gave him months and years and he's (obviously) done nothing with it other than get in fights and get busted for DUIs (and who-knows-what-else), isn't that evidence enough that any gifts you bestow upon him will be a wasted effort?

I'd help him get a job, but not one you stand to lose YOUR reputation on, if you know what I mean. It's up to him (at age 30+) to make his own way in life - not constantly depend on prop-ups and handouts from those of us that have already figured that out and done it for ourselves. . .

I disagree. I think as long as you're honest about the situation, at least you'll be respected for trying to help someone out. If they aren't comfortable hiring him, that's completely fair.

A few years ago I helped a friend in a similar situation land a job to get back on his feet. Unfortunately, my friend flaked out.

The contact I used to get him the job was totally aware of the risk, because I spelled it out to him. He didn't harbor anything against me, and has since hired 2 people I recommended.


Well, a lot of us (me included) have seen friends or family members "bottom out". It ain't pretty, and no matter what the sour history may be, it's hard to deny help to someone you care about... especially if there's a glimmer of hope.

I’m taking him to lunch Sunday.

I’m giving “him” a pseudonym; NV. Those aren’t even his initials. I want to respect his privacy, gain the benefit from the collective experience here and have everyone know how rewarding foster parenting can be. I suppose some may know someone in similar situations and this may help.

In the meantime I’m relearning how to deal with the bureaucracy. I’ll have an interim report before the weekend. Hopefully I won’t be crying “uncle” in frustration.

I appreciate all your input.

Best,
Grady

Re: Foster kid returns
 

Your answer is right there...the question, which you have no doubt wrestled with, is how; and, should that not be possible, how to dissengage without further damaging NV's life.

There is of course, no right answer. The possible "what if's" are as varied as they are immutable.

In the Navy, we have a saying when in the midst of turmoil: "Don't steer by the wake..."

Set a course with NV, expect turmoil, adjust the subsequent course based on your vast experience and knowledge, looking forward. I wish you all the best and following seas, Mr. Clay. NV is a very fortunate man should he choose to not steer by the wake.

Sounds like a sad and confusing situation. But, things happen and paths cross where you least expect it for reasons that usually better us in one way or another - some we don't expect.

I wish you the best of luck.

I do have a question....what ARE your ongoing obligations after fostering someone? I assume that this fellow wasn't an adult when he left you....what happens to them, they just go back to the agency? Did you foster any other kids? Do you have an ongoing relationship of any sort with them?

Wow, this is a tough one. I feel for you. I have a family member that has chosen a lofe of drug addiction over family. Lots of bad choices including not raising her children correctly and them following the same path.

You have to ask yourself why this "kid" at 36 years old has not grown up? What is holding him back and why is he not advancing in life. I suspect you'll find more than alcohol here.

My relative has been given breaks over and over again only to steal from family and do more drugs. At over 40 years old she still acts like a 15 year old and there is no sign of her ever getting off drugs. Like I said she is off limits to family and does not care.

Good luck and be VERY careful, what your doing is noble and can bite you in the ass. I would do that same as you, everyone deserves a chance, just be prepared for a let down.

Steve,

Yes, I foster parented others and was a “Big Brother” to many. I encourage all on the Forum who are starting out in your career to do this. You can think of it as parenting without the permanence. Many do this after their natural children are adults and before grandchildren. All is very satisfying.

There are no legal obligations. You will find some obligations transcend “legal.”


Sometime just before he turned 18 (and the State considered him an “adult”) he went off on his own. A sad fact of our system. My two adopted kids were (are) dramatically different in their transition to “adult” now at 21 and 31.

In this situation “obligation” isn’t something legislated. Yes it is “sad and confusing.” I intend to bring some happiness and, most important, clarity and organization to the situation. In my opinion these circumstances need someone to become an overseer to bring the situation back to manageable.

I know it won’t be perfect.
I know it won’t be easy.
I know it needs to be done.
If not me, who?

Jim, there were significant issues prior to my meeting him at age 12. Some will probably always be there. The goal is to make the best of a less-than-perfect situation. Like most of life.


The Forum can help me with ideas and critique. I thank you all.

Best,
Grady

It is very hard to turn a person down who comes to you for help. I am suprised with the advice given so far- in that it is pretty damn good.

1) If there is a substance abuse problem, this has to be rectified before anything else can happen. Seems everyone here who has been through it agrees. Don't they have places where you can check in for free and get help/counseling as well as room/board for awhile? And, as people here have said, if there is substance abuse, there is underlying psychological turmoil at the roots. He needs to kill the roots.

2) At this point, you will have spent nothing, because the program was free. As for a job, making a recommendation is totally cool, so long as you tell the potential employer the truth. Also, a really cool thing would be to have him 'interview' with the guy, even if its a shoe-in. A boost in confidence from this would benefit him I think. So just tell him you can get him into an interview, and the rest is going to seem more gratifying to him.

3) Assuming a job is in order, it shouldn't take long for him to have enough $ to at least pay rent and food. So at this point, you could feel comfortable with a 2 month expense loan. Set a really easy timetable to pay it back, like a year with the payments spread out and starting in month 3.

4) The weekly brunch idea is fantastic. Once things get comfortable, maybe even try something light such as bowling or something. Just to keep it light. This gives the guy opportunity to speak about individual problems that are cropping up, so you can make suggestions about reasonable and non-criminal ways to handle them.

You're a good guy, as I suspect most of us are (scary, isn't it). Lending a helping hand is the right thing to do, but you can also do it without putting yourself in serious financial risk. And besides, I am certain that just throwing money at the problem will probably make it worse anyhow.

Best of luck to you. No matter what, I bet there are some big bumps in the road ahead.

"I know it won’t be perfect.
I know it won’t be easy.
I know it needs to be done.
If not me, who?"

Grady, you said it well there! I'm in agreement with your earlier post/plan. I've always known that you're a bright and caring man.
I wish both of you the best of luck.

Grady,
First, I admire and respect what you are doing (and have done) with this person. You seem to be an understanding and compassionate man.

One idea that I don't think has been mentioned is to see if you can reunite him with any long lost family that he might have. This isn't as crazy as it sounds, actually. My S/O works with group home/foster care children and has recently started working with a new program that attempts to connect them with family, whether it be an uncle, grandparent, or whatever. The program has been very successful and has helped to give some of the kids a sense of family that they never had. Some have even left foster care to go live with a family member.

While I realize that your case is different in that "NV" is a 36 year old man, I would bet there are programs designed for him as well. It might help him if he knew there was somebody in his immediate or not-so-immediate family that he could at least talk to. In cases like these, there is usually one member of the family that isn't a total screw-up, and would be willing to help.

I can PM you more info if you'd like, after I talk to the GF when she's home from work.

Regards,
Jim

Grady,

Hope that things work out and get better for NV. If there is anything we can do to help, please let us know.

If it works out for him, you both will be better for it. If not then at least you gave it a try. If you would not at least attempt to assist this gent then you would always wonder "what if" and thats something that you do not want to have to worry about.

Give it a shot and good luck!

Joe

People expect not to do this themselves but that the government should for them. What he is doing is admirable and if more people did there would be less of the people you're afraid of.

In many ways, the more you help someone...the more they take it for granted, and ultimately loose appreciation for your help. In the worse cases, they begin to resent you despite your helpful nature, most likely rooted in their deep self-hatred subconscious which ultimately forces them to rebel against those who are helpful to them.

Its the same way in the animal kingdom as well, these characteristices... and seems to have made its way up to human nature, or maybe its the other way around.

Therefore, tread cautiously and only give assistance within reason and as requested.

Grady,

My two youngest were adopted after we fostered them for two years. Granted they were 19 months and 3 years old when they came into our home and hadn't seen the kind of damage 10+ years of neglect can do, they have issues.

Based on my training and personal experience, I would guess that your foster son was in and out of the system for most of his life and I'm guessing suffers from a certain degree of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD).

If I'm right, he has trouble bonding with others and is masterful at manipulating people (a consummate lair). Be very careful and do not trust anything he says.

If you do decide to help, make everything you give or do for him ... conditional. Make him earn everything. I mean every little thing. And he should earn it before he receives it.

It is OK to have compassion. After all it is not his fault he had the childhood he had. He is most likely doing the very best he can to survive with the "tools" he learned. Just guard yourself.

Please keep us posted. I'll be happy to lend an ear anytime. You have given so much to this forum, I'd like to "give back" in any way I can.

Sooo many great suggestions here, I'll just affirm a few that I think are particularly good:

1. Sobriety #1, otherwise every other effort is for naught. Ask for proof because it's important to you that he get "clean". More than just "okay I've stopped drinking." Addicts lie to themselves, so they have no problem lying to you. (Speaking from nicotine addiction myself :) )
2. Help him get a job, but don't let him think it's shoo-in.. No pride in that, no sense of earning it.
3. Financial help? Hmm... IF you can, IF he gets clean, IF he shows willingness to do something good with himself.
4. I LOVE the idea someone had about having him volunteer. What a great way to get someone to see that others have it worse, that they are helping, and get instant feelings of having done something good.

Wish I would have seen this thread sooner, but lots of good advice so far. I agree with all who commended your good character and generosity, Grady. While there is nothing at all wrong w/ helping a fellow man, it needs to be done carefully for positive effect.

I agree w/ insisting that he fully investigate any alcohol/substance issues as a first condition, and that can be presented in a palatable way. In other words, it is not his fault if he has an addict personality/is alcoholic, but it is his responsibility to treat it. Such a pre-disposition is usually inherited, so therefore not a choice. Recovery is a choice, however, and can make the difference between a successful life and an absolutely miserable one. Not being an alcoholic yourself, (I assume), you may not be completely familiar w/ all of the implications and behavior.

As for why he has not been in contact over the years, I lean towards the explanation of shame. You are one of the most exemplary men that I have had the pleasure of knowing, even if it is only through the internet, and also someone who has been successful in life. This can cause self-concienceness among the un- or underemployed. I have felt this over the last year myself, rational or not, it is real.

I am definitely in the camp of protecting you from having your goodwill abused, but at the same time you have a lot to offer someone who is less equipped to handle life than you. He needs guidance more than anything else, more than $$ for sure, and you are an excellent person to give it. Sure, in a perfect world he would have gotten this guidance when he was a boy from his father who loved him, but it's not a perfect world, is it? ;)

I do quite a bit of volunteer work w/ addicts, I will PM you my phone #s and offer any assistance that I can give. It would be an honor, I really admire you.

Aah yes, it is even more complicated – as I expected.

I see a real sense of hopelessness and depression. In spite of that he seems willing to work himself out of this perceived black hole.

The GOOD NEWS is no alcohol – he has been dry since late summer. The goal is to give reason and encouragement to stay that way for a lifetime. As near as I can tell, drugs have never been an issue. He smokes when he can but claims to be willing to give that up also. I think my “gag-reaction” to any cigarette smell had the desired effect.

He is married(?) and separated or divorced? It isn’t clear what or which. There is a 2-year old daughter that he assumes is his. He says he signed some notarized papers – I’ll find out what eventually.

He is under court ordered 12-step and antibuse program that he hasn’t started.
Driver’s license suspended for 3 years (and the last time he had a driver’s license was three years ago).

He has to meet with a parole officer once a month and pay $50 or go directly to jail (State Penitently for three years). His day-labor job barely pays his weekly motel bill, how can he possibly comply. I had him write out permission for me to speak with the parole officer. I’ll call and fax that now.

It is clear to me that he has no idea of the legal system. He can’t distinguish between a prosecutor and a public defender – he just “goes with the flow” and is being taken advantage of. That is going to stop! I know enough legal talent to go to the US Supreme Court. I’ll find one of my friends to review the files. Any volunteers?


He worked for a concrete company for 12 years getting paid cash so no withholding, SS or unemployment contributions. I went over IRS SS-8 with him and clearly he was a full-time employee the entire time. He only made $12-14K each year so I suspect he will only have minimal tax liability. He has never in his life filed a tax return until maybe ‘05. In 2005 he worked for a different contractor (same skilled job) and was an employee with withholding, SSI contributions, etc. His “ex” supposedly filed a return (and kept the refund).

The good news about this is there are SS and other contributions on record (hopefully). This will qualify him for some important benefits. If necessary I suspect he can re-file ’05. I’ll get some of my CPA friends involved.


No health insurance; not even signed up for Medicaid or CICP and has no idea where the free clinics are. I gave him a list of all the clinics and hospitals that will see him for free in the short term.


After a many days on phone trees and terminal hold with various agencies, I found quite a few helpful people. (I think mostly because I was a knowledgeable adult friend helping and not a “client.”) I can tell this process (dealing with agencies) is not for the weak of determination.

I found a very helpful person at the IRS (yes, it is true) that got me pointed in the direction of forms and what year to have him file and what years to not. This will then activate Social Security, unemployment and a bunch of other services. He needs to apply for disability determination which will open up another bunch of avenues.

The county Department of Human Services was also very helpful. This will provide the access to the alcohol abuse treatment and follow-up, medical care, transitional housing, transit pass and more. The good news there is he went in and got an appointment for this Thursday and I’ll go with him.

This week the mission is to get proper ID. He will need his birth certificate and get a Colorado ID (since he doesn’t have a driver’s license). He “thinks” he has a Social Security card but that isn’t difficult to replace as I still have his SSN. The court file will also provide suitable ID.


I took him to lunch Sunday. He ate and we talked for three hours

I’m not going to give or lend any money. I my plan is to get him situated so he can survive. Today I gave him some services:
I gave him a phone card so he can call me and others.
I gave him a bus pass so he can get to the day-labor job without walking 1 ½ hours each way.
I gave him a $50 grocery card and he bought some coffee, ½ gal milk and toiletries; with $38 still on the card.
I gave him eight first-class stamps, some envelopes, paper and a pen.
I gave him some groceries from my house:
- 6 apples
- 6 oranges
- Loaf of good bread
- Peanut butter and jam
- six cans of soup/pasta
- six tins of tuna & ham
- large box of Cheerios
This should start to get him some proper nutrition.

The flop-house motel is at least clean. He has a small frig and microwave. The proprietor seems unable (or unwilling) to give him an itemized bill indicating charges, payments, fees and taxes. That too will change. I can see too much opportunity for improper charges.


With proper ID he can then get a normal job. If the alcohol treatment is working, I may get him and my contractor friend together and make sure everyone understands all the issues. He says he can have him with a shovel for $12/hr, $20+ as a finisher and more when he can qualify for the company’s auto insurance and has a driver’s license.



Please continue with suggestions, encouragement or criticism. All are greatly appreciated.

Best,
Grady

Situation like this makes me proud I paid millions in taxes in business and personally. This is what is called society. The shame is too much goes to war and waste.

Here is a somewhat related kid thread I posting on:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/316852-problem-one-my-sons-teachers.html
G.

Let me be the first to say that I think you're on the right track to getting him standing on his own two feet again. Sounds like a pretty lost soul who could use some good advice from someone that cares, seems like you're doing a pretty good job of that.

Thank goodness for important friends and big government.