Wow, it really is amazing how the "system" can abuse a person if they don't (or are unwilling to) keep up with it. I think it's wasy to think that given the circles we all run in, that everyone is like us (same goals, motivations). Obviously that is not the case. Congrats to you for helping this fellow out.

At the very least, it seems like he's got something to start with.

He's very lucky to have you advocating for him. Depression and a sense of helplessness sure wouldn't help him battle his way through the legal & bureaucratic hoops.

Thanks for keeping us updated, it's good to hear that there is hope. Our family has been trying to reach out to a cousin in Vancouver who is an addict, but sadly her situation isn't nearly as positive as your old foster child's.

a wise man once said, "you're a good man, grady clay..." for what greater legacy should a man aspire?
ryan

Your a good guy Grady.

I have done some mentoring and diversion programs for teens but, you take it many more steps.

It's good thing that there are people left like you. I hope NV gets the full bene.

Rick

same. i've mentored in the form of a "stepdad" to two very troubled teenage boys (dated their mothers). it can really be a challenge, but both boys have turned out to be good young men, who were at one time on a really troubled path. i count my experience with them among my most meaningful accomplishments in this life. working with an adult in this man's situation is very tricky and requires a strong man as well as a big heart. grady appears to posess both..
ryan

Grady,

I am glad it went as well as it did for you.

Bill

Jake,

It is pretty clear to me that he isn’t capable in this situation. His focus is to not freeze to death and have something to eat. Last week, all he had to eat were some flour tortillas! He is a skinny ghost of a person. His digestive system is distressed from yesterday’s feast.


Ryan; You are to be commended. Your unsung efforts probably made a huge difference in some young persons’ lives. Good for you.


Guys; I could use help with several areas:

- CPAs dealing with the IRS. While some pro bono representation would be great, just keeping me pointed in the right direction will help LV. I’ll be the “responsible party”.

- Some pointers about people of documented limited mental capacity dealing with the legal system would be of benefit to me.

- Who has knowledge dealing with the SSA and a county department of “Human Services”? I’m in uncharted waters. I need help to even know what the services that are possibly available.

- The legal issues. It appears he has been trampled by the “system.”


I know that some on the OT Forum will criticize the situation as taking advantage of our social conscience and how bad social welfare is. I don’t think so. I think this some of the best of our society. I think it is our (I mean all of us) collective responsibility to find an ongoing resolution. The alternative seems to be to let NV fail, be incarcerated and we (collectively) pay huge sums for that. I feel that is unnecessary. There are better choices.

Here is a “kid” (birth date spring ’73 RS) who needs help. Do we walk away? I don’t think so.

Best,
Grady

grady: if you'd like help from members for things like clothes or money that you could redeem for food stamps, etc. pm reply to guys like me and i'd (and others i'm sure) be happy to send a little help along check or some clothes if he's near my size. i gave a guy in our local crisis center a gym bag full of clothes this time last year..would be glad to do it for any foster son of yours. everyone deserves a second chance. no matter what, his life can't be all that great. when i complain, i see that things could indeed be far worse..
ryan

I'm in...too far away to help in person, if asked.

and grady, i'm 6'2" and 225 if you think our sizes may be close for clothes. although you did say that he was rather lean right now. what about shoes? i wear a size 12 and have a number that have little wear at all.
ryan

Grady,
You are the MAN!

Maybe you can post some physical needs and people can get them to you individually. Can't help with the legal and CPA stuff.

Grady,
I'm in with a little financial bump if that's the way this goes.

This board never ceases to amaze me.

Guys,

Thanks for all the offers. That may be useful later if he follows through.

I think the sequence I’ll try is:
Keep him situated where he is best reasonably alive. Make sure he has shelter, food and clothes.

Make sure he complies with his parole requirements (otherwise he goes to jail).

Get his ID fully up to date. That includes birth certificate, Colorado ID, Social Security card, etc. Only with this can he get a real job.

Get him services from the Department of Human Services, the Social Security Administration and others. I’m going to approach this to get him maximum services and then have him shed them as he can possibly start making money and reintegrate in real life. This way if (when) there is a “bump”, he doesn’t fall to the bottom again. It seems to me that he may need some sort of life-long safety net. It is hard to tell at this stage.

Once things are somewhat stable, he can prove some level of responsibility and demonstrates aspirations to “make good” with a real job again, then I’ll introduce him to my friend and others in the business. That too will probably require some support from me (us).

If (when) he can make that transition, he probably will need a LOT of help. Mostly with getting settled in the right way and who he associates with. This may be where volunteerism on his part may be most important. I can see a situation where he gives and learns from it.

Part of this will be the responsibility for having his own efficiency apartment. This may be where our collective help can be of use. I’m not a believer in blind giving. Perhaps there can be some situation where he can earn furnishings by giving his time to others or something. I have suggested “Habitat for Humanity.”


One thing he has repeatedly expressed is his desire to get away from the local where he is. He has lived there forever. He says he knows too many people who he doesn’t want to associate with again – mostly alcohol related. I think I agree.

The current issue is he has “residence” in this jurisdiction. If he moves next week he probably will loose the ability to get any help form the agencies. I don’t want to see that happen.

I think my plan is to help inspire him to make the best of the current situation, demonstrate his responsibility and earn some money (as little as it is). If he can do that (even with help) then I may help him take the next step.

For him to move to an unfamiliar city, it will be even more important for him to be in the right circle of people. Just as Pelican is a “community” so are whoever he associates with. It would be wrong to throw him into a situation and leave him to his own devices. That is a recipe for failure. It should be possible to have a “support system” in place. Just how should it be done?

A critical aspect of this is the job situation. He seems willing to start at the bottom to gain entry to real life. That said everyone needs to be able to see a path to the “better life.” That is what will possibly motivate him to remain sober and improve his lot.

Changing local, I will need some help from my Northern Colorado friends.


Guys, I would like to hear some counter-argument here. I think that makes for good discussion. Most who know me realize I can make a good argument against what I am proposing or doing. The argument pro & con benefits everyone.

Best,
Grady
Pinko Commie Socialist hat today :D

I am amazed at where he's at, it could be a lot worst. NV sounds like he's trying just uneducated in how to use the system to help him, he is lucky to have you in his life for guidance. (As we all are here!) If you want clothes I'm about 5'10 w/ a 34" waist and a 10.5 shoe size.

From what I can tell, you are doing all the right moves.

Stefanie,

Thank you. You are the experienced person I need to talk to. Feel free to email me at gradyclayathotmaildotcom.

“you mentioned something about limited capacity... in what way do you mean this? does he suffer from any developmental disabilities and does he have a mental health dx?
if he has a mental health dx along the lines of mental retardation (as ref. to in the DSM IV) or developmental disabilities he may be eligible for vocational rehab programs. Also as an adult the local social service agency should have an adult protective services division or something along those lines who can help a developmentally challanged adult.”
I have testing that shows this when he was an older teen (15-17). He was hospitalized several times with depression and other. At 17 he would curl up in my lap and weep. I get the feeling he would do that again.

”the second thing to think about is if you want to be a legal guardian for him (yet again). If an adult can be deemed 'unable to provide informed care for and protection of themselves' they can be appointed a guardian in court. this could be as small as a power of attorney or as big as a legal guardian. the benefit of this is that you would be like a legal parent for him, systems would ref to you for permission to do things with him, pay bills, make legal dec. etc. however, you would have to prove in court that he needs this. usually the local dept. of social services would bring the matter to court so you would not rec. hiring an attorney... but he would need to either vol. allow this or you would have to have it court ordered to have him declared incompetent... which brings in a psy to eval him”
Thursday I’m going to ask him to sign a General POA and the specific ones dealing with IRS, county Human Services and SSA. At some point I’m going to see that he is evaluated. I don’t want to be a conservator and I don’t think (with my lame ability) he needs that (yet).

”was he ever formally adopted? or did he age out of foster care?”
No, he aged out.

”most states offer adoption assistance for a child up until a certain age. not sure about colorado age limits but he could quailify for some grants, financial assistance or college payment schorl. if so...”
Many of these services are still available to adults here. He wants to get his GED. That is another good sign of his determination to make things better. More education is readably available but first things first.

”i would def. find out what paperwork he signed with his ex.... if he is obligated to pay child support, did he sign over his parental rights, etc.”
I agree. I’m being careful treading here because I detect some sensitivity. This will probably all come out in the next week or few.

”without having the child in his home is not eligible for a lot of social services such as food stamps, etc.... unless he is a disabiled adult... which brings us back to the possibility of a dev. disability. he could try to get SSI if he can prove he is disabiled... usually you apply twice for SSI and on the third time you hire an attorney, who you usually do not pay up front, they take out of the payment later if approved. not sure how not paying taxes would affect that... but def. something to check into

again if he has a dev. dx he should be eligible for adult social services and usually those include heating assistance, sometimes food stamps, and possibly if he gets SSi insurance.”
I can’t tell this yet. The theory I have been advised to follow is to have him apply for SS Disability. He will be initially denied as you noted. The next step is the 3341 Appeal that apparently everyone has to do. Apparently during this process he can receive evaluation and benefits he needs.

”if his lic was revoked he must have two or more DUI's or something along those lines. he should have had a court appointed attorney in that matter... if he completes the 12 classes he can apply for a provisional drive lic. of course insurance is high with a DUI.. but he could legally drive to work, etc. alot of times too the sooner he pays his probation fees the sooner he can get off probation....”
In the short term I’m not too worried about this. I think there are some serious issues that need to be resolved before he applies for a driver’s license renewal.

”anything else???”
Probably so. I learn a huge amount each time we talk. I suspect there are some serious unresolved issues that I don’t know about (yet).

Stefanie, thank you so much for chiming in. I really can use your help in understanding the situation and properly interfacing with the agencies.

This afternoon I talked to a lady who exemplifies “a$$ ho!e bureaucrat”. I know who she works for here in Denver. Almost everyone I have talked to, realizing my position, have been extremely helpful. It is very gratifying to see that.

Best,
Grady

Grady,

Good to see that its progressing and that things appear to be pointed in the right direction.

I am about the same size as Ryan (bigchill) and have extra things that I could donate for LV. If interested please PM or email me. Am overseas working right now but return home on 21 December and could try to get something on its way from AZ to CO in time for Christmas.

Joe

Grady,

When you have determined, collectively, a list of items, services or cash amount needed to assist NV, please post it here.

Quite a few people have already volunteered to help out. We'll help out a bit too. A bunch of small donations add up REAL quick. There is a saying "Many hands make light the load."

This group would like to help. Just tell us whats needed and where to send it.
angela

my size, joe? now i know where to maybe mail all of these old (many un-opened) aviation shirts i wound up with after retiring from aviation.. ;) i know you have yours..but you don't get my four bars though! :)

again, grady..let us know his size and i'm sure many will donate clothing, etc. just give the word.
ryan

Well, yesterday was exhausting - 12+ hours, 200+ miles. Took NV to breakfast, 2-hours at Denny’s. Too much coffee (2 cups) but learned a lot. Then off to Department of Human Services, another two hours but got him signed up for food stamps ($155/mo). Then off to Department of Vital Statistics for birth certificate. Next to DMV for State photo ID. Finally to the County Court House for records – very enlightening. There eighteen case numbers since ’98. Almost all are somehow related to alcohol; DUIs, bar fight, etc. It turns out he spent 15 months in the county lock-up in ’03 for habitual driving infractions. Apparently he chose that because he got food and shelter – very sad. There are also other cases in other jurisdictions. We also got POA and “representation” forms signed. Sent IRS 4506-T for his return for ‘05 (filed by ex). This is the only return filed in his life (now age 33)

His day labor success is very spotty. He has until Saturday afternoon to earn $89 (legally) to pay his rent for the next week. The day labor may be an outrageous abuse of the poor. Not only do they take a cut but hold back payment. The workers are also charged for transportation to the job site and there may be other.

I get the feeling he would be willing to scam me if possible. I'm not going to let that happen. On the other hand he is very appreciative for the organization. He can see some light. He still seels like a very imature 15-year old.

Next Thursday is his meeting with his Parole Officer, Social Security Administration, indigent medical care and get him enrolled in the alcohol treatment program with antibuse. He tells me he hasn’t had a drink but I don’t think so. Probably typical for a long term alcoholic. I wonder how the regular dose of the antibuse drug can be enforced?

There are a lot more details but I need sleep. I’ll post tomorrow after I figure out how to fix my email properly.

Best,
Grady

You are SUCH a good man, Grady Clay!