i'de win him on flavour instead, nothing mcdonalds does can beat homecooking...
i make a huge pot of soup a week, for the freezer, i eat soup every day in the evening, it's cheap, very healthy(fibre and vitamins), low fat, big taste... takes me 1 hour on saturday to chop things and prep( and another hour while it cooks) i blend it , and man it's good stuff....and dead easy to make, and it fills you up good ( i make my soup with plenty of veggies, and i blend em, so the end result is thick soup )

i then rotate the soups in my freezer, so i never eat the same soup 2 days in a row...for me it helps me with my fatty liver, i'm loosing weight this way , and i don't really have to give up much , i still eat when i want, if i feel like it , i will occasionally snack, it's not a hard core diet, but it works...did quit CocaCola, but that's no loss... it really isn't healthy stuff...

He just needs a healthy activity that is somewhat addictive...if not church, what about working out at a gym or running? The YMCA might be a good place.

I wouldn't go with a pet. If he can barely feed and take care of himself, it'll be more of a burden on him.

he needs a project

he needs a project that will keep him interested and engaged

one that he will learn a skill throughout the process

one with definable milestones that, once achieved, he can step back, take a look, and be proud of each small accomplishment

One that the culmination of multiple milestones yields something amazing

One that has a community of passionate experts and "experts" that can gather round and help in the process, both locally and nationally

One that the final accomplishment is a continual, physical reminder of the fruits of the "good path" every time he turns the key.

and so on.




Who has a lonely 74-77 project car sitting in their garage that they'd like to donate? Who has some parts they'll use someday just sitting on the shelf? Who has an hour or 3 on a weekend now and again?

My $.02, and some parts sitting on the shelf.

Grady,

How about talking to the pounds or Vet's in the area and seeing if they would hire him to help out. Explain the situation and wonder if you could not find someplace where he could work for minimum wage and being around the critters might help.

About his moving. Association is the worse thing, period. Get him to a place where he knows no one and no "old friends" to drag him back where he has been.

Joe A

i hate to mention it..but what about xmas? does he have any expectations to spend it with you and your family? i guess he really has nowhere to go? this is the time of year for those of us with sorrows..to literally drown them.
ryan

UPDATE:

Monday night NV came back to the motel having worked all day. He paid his rent ($75) and a little more ($15). He even stashed $5 to pay his parole officer for his fine (he has $25/mo due).

Someone “gave” him a bottle of booz.

Soon enough a window in his room is broken. The cops are called. He is drunk and combative. The cops shackle him hand and foot and “bag” his head. He is charged with misdemeanor Resisting Arrest, Destruction of Property and Criminal Mischief. In jail since.

I paid for the damage ($105) and his rent through Saturday ($159). It isn’t clear who the complaining party is. The motel manager tells me it isn’t her. I suspect the police officers are the complainants for the Resisting Arrest charge. His bail is only $30 but I’m not going to pay that. He may spend Christmas and New Year in jail. Saturday I may go retrieve his belongings and quit paying rent.

His next court date is January 4. On the other hand for $30 bond, the county may just send him home on “personal recognizance”. It costs the county less.


Alcohol is the root cause of all this.

Even his parole officer doesn’t seem to have a clue how to address this issue (sad). Without intervention on multiple levels, this will be a continuing cycle. It could continue into far worse situations where the State puts him away forever. I am absolutely amazed that there isn’t some procedure (antibuse and breathalyzer) that enforces no drinking.

Is it that such people just change their “drug of choice” from alcohol to something else?

I haven’t spent $2K yet and about 50 hours. This is a 33-yo kid that I want to help. (Yes, he is still an immature kid caught by chemicals.)



Here is my current plan, if I can make it work.

Get him a full-time job in Ft. Collins, CO with a (willing) concrete contractor friend. He doesn’t know anyone here so there is the opportunity to “start from scratch” with who he associates.
Get him an inexpensive apartment (subsidized at first).
Set him up with the basic stuff; Goodwill clothes and apartment necessities.
On a program that insures he is drug and alcohol free.
Get him involved in real life; I have discussed with the Habitat for Humanity Director his volunteering. I suspect I can get him involved (in a non-religious way) with the local Society of Friends (Quaker) volunteerism. We have lots of Porsche friends. There are lots of other possibilities. The goal is to have him change societies from alcohol, drugs and criminals to normal (and non-alcohol) society. He is an alcoholic, not a criminal.

I need help doing this. I’ll bear the majority of financial responsibility. Can some Ft. Collins Pelicans help me find appropriate housing? It needs to be cheep. It also needs to be close to public transportation, grocery, Laundromat, etc. I think I can organize acceptable transportation to his employment, if there is easy public transport.

He absolutely should not drive until he has proven some levels of responsibilities.

I think the key to not have him fall back on alcohol or worse is success and having good things to do in life. He needs to associate with non-drinkers, non-druggies and positive society. Please help me with suggestions.

There also needs to be a “safety net” if (when) he is tempted to (or actually) falls off the wagon. How do I do that? The goal is to have failure not an option.

Best,
Grady

Grady,
Tough sitch. Does he acknowledge a problem exists? Does he want to correct the faults but just doesn't know how? Sounds like he needs AA and a hardcore sponsor. This is gonna be a long battle but he really needs to go to a meeting every day for at least 45 days maybe 60. They are around and plenty of people will help. They will even pick him up and drop him off.

he has to want to get better though. It has to come from him. Once he admits he has a problem, commits to trying to get better then that is a huge step. He has to truly admit it though. Is he capable?

Unfortunately, he will be both. Attack the root cause...alcohol is the cause.

Find the local AA folks (start there even if you are not a fan) and get them involved.

They know how to do this.

Edit: Lube beat me to it...should focus the message.

Grady,

I have the inlaws and then my family in town all next week but am off all week, I can help you find him some housing. I know there is a Workforce Center in Fort Collins, they may know of someplace.

Do you still have my e-mail and cell?

Bill

That's the problem. If he hasn't hit "rock bottom", helping him out with all the nice plans won't work. It's hard to judge where you think he is even if you were an drug abuse professional. Grady, that is where you need to point him if you believe the alcohol is the root problem. There probably are detox/inpatient treatment programs where he can be somewhat isolated from the "outside". Then he graduates to live and work with AA etc.

good point, do you think he is that far gone though?

Once again Grady, your kindness and generosity are truly inspirational.

Yes, substance abusers will switch from alcohol to prescription drugs to street drugs without missing a step. It's part of the addictive personality profile.

He cannot be helped until he is clean and sober. It is the first and most important step.

antabuse inplant, covers 6 months
then hope those 6 months is enough to cover enough ground...


tough call, but with any addiction you gotta hit bottom for before one detoxes on character... took me 12 years of smoking till i suddenly saw the light, and i quit from the first time...

quitting because he has to won't work
detox clinic can be checked out
AA meetings can be forgotten

Antabuse under the skin can't be forgotten or checked out
and i doubt he would take a kitchen knife and cut it out himself....


painkillers maybe, but street drugs , dunno
depends on what town i suppose , in R'dam it would be easy , but in my home town which is more rural , an alcoholic would have to put in a lot of effort to even find any without any prior connections with dopers

The key to this is that NV has to want a better life and be willing to listen, be honest with himself and others, and make hard choices.

Grady,
You should go to an AA meeting early and ask around for some of the old timers. Get them to set you up with a sponser who is willing and able to help (it's a huge commitment and not all are able to handle it). NV has to hit 90 meetings in 90 days. There is no flexibility in this and there are no excuses. You and the sponser must ensure NV hits this goal.

One other thing - NV told you that someone "gave" him a bottle. I assume you realize that's a lie. Drunks will lie/cheat/steal to support their habit of needed. I wish you and him the best in this. It won't be easy, but will be worth it if he gets sober.

being around more than a few of those types (I've grown up with- from grade school to adulthood) the only thing that comes to mind is to be careful with anything that resembles money.

If the guy is wrapped up with serious drugs, then it's more than likely he's out for an immediate opportunity - you simply can't trust someone who's warped like that. If that's the case, he's going to be out for #1 and will say / do anything to survive. Unfortunately, the drugs are a tough one to overcome.

I do not know of any trustworthy druggies, and there's a reason he hasn't been able to get his act together to the point where at least he's self sufficient. Substance abusers are notoriously self centered and unreliable at any given moment.

If you choose to let him back in, be careful and don't listen to the excuses, and I would be very careful if you give him access to your personal space.

Good luck.

rjp

My experience with an alcoholic girl friend was enlightening! When they drink, they will do anything! Lie, cheat and steal from the Pope with a straight face! The only way to help an alcoholic is to get them into AA! You really can't help them, they can only help themselves when they are READY! Usually after they hit rock bottom! You guys will be in my prayers!

Mike,

“Does he acknowledge a problem exists?” Yes.

“Does he want to correct the faults but just doesn't know how?” Yes, he even knows how. He just can’t reliably follow through. His environment puts him in a position to fail. He is crying out for help.


“Sounds like he needs AA and a hardcore sponsor.” That may be worthwhile. Is the other part of the equation to only have him exposed to non-drinkers?

“This is gonna be a long battle but he really needs to go to a meeting every day for at least 45 days maybe 60.” I think it may be FAR longer. This is a life-long addiction for him, I think.


“They are around and plenty of people will help. They will even pick him up and drop him off.” Good. It is going to take that.

”He has to want to get better though. It has to come from him. Once he admits he has a problem, commits to trying to get better then that is a huge step. He has to truly admit it though. Is he capable?” I think so. It is going to take a lot of help for this to be successful.

Seahawk, I agree, he will be both unless something is done.

Bill, Thanks. I may come up (and we have a fun Pelican Gathering). There are a lot of Porsche projects I need to see and help with. Please email me at gradyclayathotmaildotcom.

Peter, I think he is at “rock bottom.” He sees jail (even State Prison) an a preferable alternative to the struggles he has on the outside. The issue is that there doesn’t seem to be an in-patent program available. I may just not be in the “human services” loop to know. I’m not able (willing) to step up and pay that level out of pocket. I agree, that would be the best route.

Mosos, I agree.

Stijn, thanks – good suggestions.

Mark, I agree. He may have taken his food money for that.

Randy, He is not trustworthy in this situation. The good news id his parole officer has test results showing no street drugs. It seems alcohol is the issue. If antibuse causes him to go to other drugs, that is a BIG problem.


This isn’t going to be easy. At least one “human services professional” has chimed in regularly via email and is much appreciated. Others are appreciated. I just don’t know how to interface with the “system” and find the services. As I said earlier, I have paid multi-millions in taxes. Here is a situation where I want some return and not ever for me.

Best,
Grady

I feel for you Grady, this is a tough situation. It sounds as if he is inclined to take what he perceives as the easy way out. There are dual diagnosis treatment centers for people with alcoholism & mental disorders. I would think getting him into one would be the first priority. It appears he will not be able to function on any level until he receives some treatment & a structured follow up plan. After he's in treatment, arrangements can be made to get him into a recovery home such as an Oxford House after he is released.

AA is not a religious program, but if he has such a hang up that he can't get past the Lords Prayer at the end of the meeting, he might be better suited to NA. They put less emphasis on God & more on a "Higher Power" & he will be welcomed there.

Grady,
The thing I worry about is knowing it and KNOWING it - saying the words vs really believing. I'm living this too with a close buddy. I wish I could help with identifying the program, but I just don't know anybody there. If there isn't one in Fort Collins, you may have to send him to Denver. Since he is penniless, there may be programs which are completely free (a number of western states have them for sure) and you're not out of pocket. Part of treatment is to get the individual to stop depending on other people (like you) that might bail them out of a bad situation. Treatment is about dealing with the whole situation, no money, no place to live, no friends the whole thing.