Everest - beyond the limit

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Anyone else as riveted to this program as I've been for the past few weeks? Simply amazing. Don't know what it is, but I've always been somehow fascinated by mountaineering (kind of weird for someone who hates snow and cold). Saw the Dave Bruschears IMAX film of Everest (1996) as soon as it came out, bought John Krakauer's "Into Thin Air" as soon as it came out and read it cover-to-cover in one sitting. Same with Anatoli Boukearev's "The Climb - Tragic Ambitions on Everest". Now this. Something about Everest just absolutely calls to me.

Simply riveting. I think I'm going to go crazy waiting until next week (without doing Internet research to cheat) to see how this expedition finishes. Right now it looks pretty bleak for a couple of the climbers. Please no spoilers if you know but opinions/discussions are fine.

Anyone else hooked on this stuff? Don't know why I'm so insanely attracted to it, but I am.

[Dottore]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Something about Everest just absolutely calls to me.

Anyone else hooked on this stuff? Don't know why I'm so insanely attracted to it, but I am.

Yup. I read all the stuff there is to read on it - but frankly am not in good enough shape to even think about climbing the sucker.

A couple of years ago we were in Kathmandu and took a flight (On "Buddha Airways" no less) that took us around the peak of Everest. Absolutely nothing you have ever seen in the Alps or elsewhere prepares you for the incredible majesty of Everest. The scale of the thing is the most humbling thing I have ever experienced. After seeing the mountain from the air, I can no longer begin to fathom how any sane person could attempt to climb it.

And we experienced the treacherous weather shifts first hand. It was a perfect sunny day when suddenly clouds came in out of nowhere. Now these guys fly VFR in pressurized turboprops, and the pilot had to dive down into the valley in order to lose altitude before the clouds rolled in. We were ****eing ourselves in the back. And this all happened in the space of two or three minutes. I can't imagine what that must be like up one the ice fields.

I am absolutely in awe of people who have made it to the peak.

[jorian]

"John Krakauer's "Into Thin Air" as soon as it came out and read it cover-to-cover in one sitting. Same with Anatoli Boukearev's "The Climb - Tragic Ambitions on Everest". Now this. Something about Everest just absolutely calls to me."

+1

[450knotOffice]

+2 but I haven't read Boukearev's book yet.

[BRPORSCHE]

I have read "Into Thin Air" numerous times. What an amazing book. You are very right, there is just something about Everest, one day I hope I can give it a go. I have done some climbing in the cirque of the towers in the Grand Tetons, and also Mt. Robson in Canada. I am rock crazy! I need to go buy Anatoli's book now.

[einreb]

Originally posted by 450knotOffice
+2 but I haven't read Boukearev's book yet.

Spoiler.... Boukearev is dead. Most of those guys are nucking futs and not in a good way. Even the 'well respected' ones like Breashears have some serious issues.

[widgeon13]

I would guess that for $25000 (++) or so you could fulfill your dream and summit Mt. Everest or at least get close, why not take the year off and spend some time in Nepal.

[89911]

I'm glad you brought this topic up, since this has been the discussion I've been having with others. I can't believe the "hand holding" these companies do to get there paid clients up the top. I'm sure if helicopters could fly to the top, they would use these means. The have sherpas going ahead, laying lines, setting up camps, bringing up supplies, rigging ladders, so the clients can meander up at their own pace. Very dissapointed and I would say if you spent $40k and didn't make it, you should feel ashamed. Absoulutely bares no resemblance to those that climbed it 20-30 years ago. If you have to wait in line like an amusement park ride to reach the top, thats got to tell you something. Makes you respect feats like Reinhold Messner's and these:

Sherpa's record Everest climb confirmed
THOMAS BELL IN KATMANDU

A SHERPA, whose record- breaking ascent of Mount Everest sparked a bitter row with his rivals, had his epic feat confirmed by the Nepalese government yesterday.

Pemba Dorje, 27, scaled the world’s highest summit in eight hours ten minutes in May, breaking the 10hr 56min record set by another Sherpa, Lhakpa Gelu, last year. Gelu had broken an earlier record set by Dorje only days before and challenged the new time, saying it was not possible to reach the peak so quickly.

That prompted the Nepalese authorities to order an investigation. They asked for help from the international climbing community, asking teams who were on the mountain when Dorje made his rapid ascent if they could validate his claims.

Now the country’s tourist ministry, which officiates over record attempts, has endorsed the climb

on the basis of items the Sherpa collected from the summit and produced before experts.

Dorje began the climb with a Swiss climber but went alone to the summit.

There is no way to monitor the activities of climbers above the base camp and the government usually relies on the accounts of climbers for information.

When Dorje returned to base camp on 21 May, news of his feat, which knocked about a third off the previous record, shot around the world, but doubts quickly set in. Gelu said he was at base camp at the time and claimed the weather was too bad on the night his rival made his climb.

Dorje brought flags from previous expeditions down from the summit as proof of his achievement, but Gelu argued they could have been collected during an earlier ascent.

Since then, the bitter row between the two Sherpas has continued, with neither prepared to accept the other’s claim to the title of fastest climber of Everest.

In 1953, it took Sir Edmund Hilary and Sherpa Tenzing Norgay seven weeks to climb the mountain, assisted by 1,000 Sherpas. These days, most expeditions take a month to reach the top, but a Sherpa who has been able to acclimatise on another expedition in the same season, taking advantage of the ropes and ladders installed by other climbers, is able to get there faster than could have been imagined 50 years ago.

A total of 1,584 climbers have reached the top of Everest since 1953: at least 185 have died on its slopes.

Gelu says he will return to the mountain again next year. In the meantime, the debate is likely to rumble on over whether Dorje’s was one of the most stunning feats in mountaineering, or one of the biggest frauds.

[Jims5543]

There was a time when climbing Everest was adventerous and unique. I suspect, these days, with your typical yuppie doling out five figures to be escorted up, there might be a path worn in the side of it. Possibly the worst part of the climb might be the line you'll have to stand in as you approach the summit.

I hear they are getting $15 for a burger at the concession stand on the summit.

[bigchillcar]

lol.

[cmccuist]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Anyone else hooked on this stuff? Don't know why I'm so insanely attracted to it, but I am.

POP, I know what you mean. This stuff is fascinating. Regarding that fateful climb back in '96 when all those people died on Everest - just about everyone who survived ended up writing a book. I read them all and thought that Into Thin Air was the best. There was some bad blood between Krakauer and Boukreev, but I think they worked it out before Boukreev died on Anapurna. David Breashears, Lene Gammelgard, Beck Weathers all weighed in on that tragedy.

The interesting thing about Everest - Beyond the Limit is that they're climbing the north face. I've read several books about the north face and it's much harder than the classical southeast ridge.

I had read about that ladder that a Chinese expedition had put up on the second step, but had never seen it. Without that ladder, the climb would basically be impossible. It looks like someone else has added a ladder to the original.

Great show!

[Flatbutt1]

I too share in the fascination with this mountain. It is beyond me now that I'm 54 years old however there is some magic attached to it.

However I am dismayed, greatly, at the impact our presence has had on the mountain. The base areas are littered with O2 bottles, trash, tents litter of all sorts. We have spoiled one of the most magical spots on earth by leaving the debris of expeditions behind.

[widgeon13]

The other thing that we leave on the mountain (in most cases) are the bodies of those that die there. (Of course that is where they would say they wanted to be buried)

The whole thing seems to be driven by self serving attitudes as demonstratated recently by abandoning live climbers(s) just to achieve the summit. Not the kind of person I want to bet my life on.

[masraum]

I just don't get the desire to climb a mountain that's so high that you can't breath and you have health issues from the thin air. I think approx 10% of the people who try to scale that mountain die. So if there are 10 in your party, odds are good (or bad depending upon your viewpoint) that one of you isn't coming back.

Those odds are a bit too crappy for my taste.

To me rock climbing would be much more fun/interesting, but I've not yet done it.

[cmccuist]

Originally posted by masraum
I just don't get the desire to climb a mountain that's so high that you can't breath and you have health issues from the thin air. I think approx 10% of the people who try to scale that mountain die. So if there are 10 in your party, odds are good (or bad depending upon your viewpoint) that one of you isn't coming back.

Those odds are a bit too crappy for my taste.

The ratio of 1 to 10 is for those who successfully reach the summit vs. those who die. Lots of people try for the summit and fail, but don't die. But damn, 185 people have died trying to get up and back. That's a lot of deaths for a reacreational activity.

The odds for climbing K2 are much worst btw. And K2 is only attempted by hard core moutaineers. There is a cottage industry that has sprung up around getting to the top of Everest that brings out a lot of Walter Mitty types and kills them.

[widebody911]

Good concise summary of the subject

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0193535.html

[RPKESQ]

Having taught mountaineering, I can say that no amount of "hand holding" will (short of helecopters, which have landed at the top of Everest) totally decrease the immense danger and effort to get to the top. It is still an amazing adventure and accomplishment. But I think the Sherpas are mountain gods and deserve almost all the credit.
Reinhold Messner's accomplishments are head and shoulders above the rest.

[VINMAN]

When i started climbing 26 yrs ago, there where no waivers to sign. No cell phones to call for help. If you f#*ked up, u dealt with it. But back then, the majority of people that climbed work thier way up the ladder in very small steps. Now every rich yuppie with a Gore-tex jacket thinks they are Edmund Hillary.
I started out hiking, then got into some rock and then techincal rock and worked my way up to mountaineering. Granted the toughest ive done is Hood and Rainer a bunch of times, and some Presidential Range winter climbs. No way does that qualify me for anything even close to a Himalayan attempt.
The problem of all this lies within the guide services that allow these " climbers" to participate. All in the name of a few $$.

[Tishabet]

I'm a former professional guide, although not on 8,000 meter summits.
< brag mode>
I got to read "Into Thin Air" as a manuscript.
<\brag mode>

89911: while I agree that climbing has changed significantly, especially on famous mountains like Everest, I would say it's more about what type of person is making the attempt. There was a time where you would not be able to get to these mountains without being invited to join an expedition, which meant you had to really have chops when it came to your mountaineering. This really started to change in the early 80s when Dick Bass shifted the equation to financial chops. So on that front, I agree with you.
However, your statement of "The have sherpas going ahead, laying lines, setting up camps, bringing up supplies, rigging ladders, so the clients can meander up at their own pace. Very disappointed and I would say if you spent $40k and didn't make it, you should feel ashamed. Absoulutely bares no resemblance to those that climbed it 20-30 years ago." seems to imply that the difference is partially about how much support is given to the climbers by sherpas, presupplied advance camps, etc. That is most definitely not the case; The use of massive manpower to supply camps further up the climb to set up one or two climbers to push for the summit has always been the way of big mountain mountaineering. Hillary, Messner, Wilcox, virtually all famous western mountaineers have summited 8,000 meter peaks using this method.

[89911]

I think you need to correct yourself. Messner actually climbed Everest solo, so I think that is a little different then the biker dude with the broken back. My point is that you have two people that can brag that the climbed Everest, but is it really the same? Sure its tough and life risking and everyone is not cut out for it. I just think there's plenty more impressive and compelling feats of the human condition then this stuff.