anyone else find this scary?

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by on-ramp
you see now? all the problems religion causes.

People cause the problems, not untangible things...

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by nostatic
my job here is done. Now I'm off to the ME...

You can have my apartment here.

Leaving in 18 hours and glad to be out of the sandbox!

JA

PS I do not know anything about the ME or Moslems. I would have to live in Chicago to be an expert on the subject.

[Moneyguy1]

"That is not what Muslims are taught".

Gee, ever read what they teach in Saudi Wahabi schools?

C_C; you ARE an apologist, defending the undefendable, resorting to name calling and making up "facts" as you go along. I attribute it to youth and inexperience.

Would you like a quote from Ahmed Sheikh, editor for Al Jazeera?

"It gnaws at people in the Middle East that such a small country as Israel, with only about 7 million inhabitants, can defeat the Arab nation with its 350 million. That hurts our collective ego. The Palestinian problem is in the genes of every Arab.The West's problem is they do not understand this". (interview with Swiss weekly Die Weltwoche).

As one writer has said: "The most underestimated emotion in Arab politics is humiliation. The Israeli-Arab conflict, for example, is not just about borders. Israel's mere existence is a daily humiliation to Muslims who can't understand how, if they have the superior religion, Israel can be so powerful." (Thomas L. Friedman)

Kamal Salabi, a Lebanese historian said: "Great powers should never get involved in the politics of small tribes".

It has also been said that in the ME tribal politics there is rarely a middle ground. When one side is weak, it will say "I am weak, how can I compromise?" If the they are strong they will say "I am strong. Why should I compromise?"

'In the Middle East, the extremists go all the way, and the moderates tend to just go away'.

Friedman makes another observation: "Our first priority is democracy, but the Arabs' first priority is "justice". The oft-warring tribes are all wounded souls, who really have been hurt by colonial powers, by Jewish settlements on Palestinian land, by Arab kings and dictators, and most of all, by each other in endless tribal wars".

Nah...I know nothing about politics or human nature.....

[cool_chick]

All the muslims in the world don't go to Wahhabist schools in Saudi to learn Islam. If they did, you'd have a point.

Please review the below again

Originally posted by VaSteve
[B]Which Muslims and by who? The world over?

Muslims the world over, yes.

Even in the militant mosques?

No. That's like the David Koresh style of Islam. It's illogical, being offensive defies all that the Koran forbids (murder, rape, etc.), just like giving your prebuscent daughter to the "priest" defies the Christian written words.

And no, moneyguy, I am not an "apologist." If I were, I'd be defending the radicals, which I'm not. I'm defending the innocents.

[nostatic]

ok, here's my take. I think one should judge someone by their actions, not their religion. Muslim extremism exists/flourishes in other countries because the actions are tolerated.

I find it disturbing that a congressman would make a sweeping statement soley based on the religion practiced by an individual rather than their character or actions. That is *not* what this country is based on.

Then again if you judged politicians by their moral character and their actions, most of them would be tossed...regardless of religion.

[cool_chick]

Originally posted by nostatic
ok, here's my take. I think one should judge someone by their actions, not their religion. Muslim extremism exists/flourishes in other countries because the actions are tolerated.

I find it disturbing that a congressman would make a sweeping statement soley based on the religion practiced by an individual rather than their character or actions. That is *not* what this country is based on.

Then again if you judged politicians by their moral character and their actions, most of them would be tossed...regardless of religion.

Amen.

Tolerated, or feared? I think it's probably both. Tolerated by some, feared by others.....I find it hard to believe all those people in those countries are sociopaths......and radical Islamic thinking is sociopathic thinking psychologically speaking.

[slakjaw]

I find it disturbing that a congressman would make a sweeping statement soley based on the religion practiced by an individual rather than their character or actions. That is *not* what this country is based on.

IMO he was talking about more then religion.

[slakjaw]

I think I read about the guy having drug charges and stealing a car or something like that.

I guess that makes him perfect for politics though.

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by nostatic
ok, here's my take. I think one should judge someone by their actions, not their religion. Muslim extremism exists/flourishes in other countries because the actions are tolerated.

I find it disturbing that a congressman would make a sweeping statement soley based on the religion practiced by an individual rather than their character or actions. That is *not* what this country is based on.

Then again if you judged politicians by their moral character and their actions, most of them would be tossed...regardless of religion.

Todd,

Agree for the most part but my heartburn is not with the terrorists, as almost everyone condems their actions, but with the rank and file of this dogcrap religion who stand there and do nothing all the while. If the rank and file would stand up and say " this is not correct, we will not support you, and will not fund nor hide you in the future" then the terrorists ranks would shrink as time went on.

Instead the rank and file does nothing, either agreeing with their stance or too afraid to say anything which is leading the terrorists to believe that they have support from the masses, and their ranks get larger and larger, day by day. The Imam's spew their hate and day by day the kids they teach learn nothing but "death to the infidel," no matter which country they live in.

Islam needs to clean up their act or the entire western world will end up eventually having a "cowboys versus the islams" war and the whole world will suffer, if it survives.

[Moneyguy1]

As George Carlin once said:

"There are no innocents. Your birth certificate is proof of guilt. Next case."

On a more serious note, guilt also belongs to those who stand on the sidelines and let the bad thigs happen. It is referred to as being an accessory to the fact.

As far as the number that attend Wahabi scools; my point is made. Those schools are tolerated, else they would no longer exist. And, the children have no choice. The same approach the Jesuits used to use: "Give us a child for the first six years and that child is ours for life."

How do you deprogram someone who has been indoctrinated since birth?

[the]

Yeah, that's the thing.

The jury is still out as to whether Islam really is "the religion of peace."

There was a program on last night (I think CNN), it showed what is being taught in government schools in places like Saudi Arabia and lots of other ME countries. Maybe not all muslims go to those schools or are indoctrinated that way. But there can be no doubt that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of youngsters are being brought up under Islam to be very, umm, unpeaceful towards non-Islams.

Is "muslim extremism" existing in other countries because it is "tolerated," or because it is being *actively promoted* by the Islamic controlled theocracy?

The program I saw had a woman Islamic scholar (she is also Islamic herself), they asked her what she felt the biggest threat to the US was? She said the US's political correctness. Enemies of the US take great advantage of it.

Anyways, I don't find what the congressman said to be "scary" at all. He has the same free speech rights as anyone else.

[slakjaw]

Agree or not I gotta say, a lot of good points have been brought up in this thread.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by dd74
I'm not sure it's been mentioned in this thread, but the Congressman elect in question, Keith Ellison, said today that his American roots trace back to about more than three generations to Louisiana.

To be quite frank, I'm more afraid of Cajuns and their spicy gumbo than I am Muslims and the narrow-minded fears some Americans want to instill in other Americans about them.

But of course these are the faces of biblical horror:
What's next? People will rue a man because he celebrates Kwanzaa instead of Xmas?

When tens and tens of thousands of Kwanzaa practitioners the world over start sawing the living heads off of Americans, blowing themselves up in malls and schoolbuses, planting hand grenades in malls on xmas eve, shooting women in the head in soccer stadiums for daring show their faces in public, and flying planes into skyscrapers, yep, i'll rue them too.

I'm real funny that way.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by DavidI
The primary reason America was founded was freedom of religion. Are we changing our minds now?

David

No one has said a word about banning Islam. Also, i would definitely debate you that 'the primary reason' the US was founded was freedom of religion.

Does the term "No taxation without representation" mean anything to you bro?

[island911]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
....
On a more serious note, guilt also belongs to those who stand on the sidelines and let the bad thigs happen. It is referred to as being an accessory to the fact.
.. . .

Exactly!

So where does this Islamic politician stand? ...on the sidelines, perhaps?

[billyboy]

Let's put all this bickering aside and concentrate on all the good things that the Muslems have done for mankind. I'll start the list: 1.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by cool_chick
[B]Everyone was a pedophile back then. They all married as children all over the world and usually died by age 30.

Interestingly enough, Jesus was not a pedophile...

That's debatable(that Islam was spread by the tip of the spear).

Sure, to anyone who has never read a history book.

Miss, have you ever heard of the battle of Tours? Charles Martel? Ever wondered why Sicilians have dark skin?
Ever wonder why the Pope suffered the reign of Vlad the Impaler(the real dracula)? Does the term "Buffer state" mean anything to you? Sigh...

That's not what Muslims are taught.

Yes, Madrassas are well known for their world class curriculum's. In these 'schools' Jews are absolutely demonized, and extremely orthodox versions of Islam are taught to students from the time they can speak. That's what all the documentaries i've seen say.

Unless that right wing mouthpiece CNN is spreading more neo-con lies to make Islam look bad.

[m21sniper]

Originally posted by island911
Exactly!

So where does this Islamic politician stand? ...on the sidelines, perhaps?

Has there ever been a jewish pol who's insisted on swearing in on a Torah?

[MRM]

I've known Keith (the congressman-elect in question who was the subject of this thread when it started) for almost 15 years. He was a young criminal defense attorney when I was a young prosecutor. We butted heads more than once. As a matter of fact, I understand that I prosecuted his first criminal jury trial. (She was convicted on one count, the jury hung on the other. He did a nice job.)

I don't know whether to defend him from some of the more insane things said here or explain to you why he really is a poor choice for Congress. Suffice it to say that most of you have completely missed the point. If you want to know real and legitimate reasons to object to Keith, do a quick Google search on him and look at who he's represented over the years and see some of the quotes he's said.

On the up side, he is mostly harmless. He will revel in the attention the race and religion baiters give him, and enjoy the prestige and status it gives him. He will rack up a voting record that would have made Paul Wellstone proud and he will likely not accomplish much in the way of legislation. It embarasses me when members of my party insist on acting like complete asses when they could level constructive and devestating criticism of people like Keith.

[m21sniper]

What comment is it exactly that has a weed up your ass MRM. I havn't seen anyone really lay into the congresscritter himself, it's mainly been a debate about the future course of Islam, and whether or not it is a 'gathering storm' if you will.

Personally, i see nothing wrong with contemplating long term issues, but if you feel we deserve derision for it, ummm, OK?