always best to look for someone else's toy that is most of the way there. A truly proper clone from ground up can cost between $80-125k to do! And it takes a year or more.

One of our projects recently sold by the owner for around $42k- it has a twin plug 3 liter, nice RS lightweight interior, suspension, and a lot of nice RS details.
Another semi completed " TRE" car , that we then finished, cost the new owner around $45k

The second hand market range seems to be from around the low 20's up the the high 60's-70's for truly outstanding cars

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Banning
[B]Last one for Charley, for now.

The quote on Charley was from an article on CRE from March 1974 in Hot Rod Magazine. John Lamm took the photos.

Cory Farley wrote the 3 full page article titled "The Underground Grand Prix".

Indeed I believe that Cory was one of the very few that Charley
gave a 'ride' to in his Corvette. It must have been impressive.

Next thing you knew after the article came out was a bunch of Drag Racers from Van Nuys Blvd. come up to race. All went home with either a bent car and/or their tails tucked firmly under their butts. So, it backfired a bit for us in that more yokels came up to mess around.

By 1975 a good many of us had our racing licenses and were "going legit". Or had found other roads to race on that were not as well known or as well traveled as Mulholland.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CRE
[B] Cory Farley's write up on the "Underground Grand Prix" was one of the most inspiring articles in the past 30+ years I have ever read. It was truth in reporting with an "underground twist". Honest? Pretty much! And this was way before I had a driver’s license. I was just a kid when it was published long before I ever ventured up to Mulholland in a car by myself except at that time on a bicycle of all things. I was awe inspired by what I read. Amazing things could be done with an automobile that had me hooked. Now I had to wait and wait, and wait, and wait to get older and get a car. Endless sleepless nights were spent pondering and waiting for that day to come and one day it did!

I only saw Charlie once parked at Bowmont waiting like a stalker in the shadows for his next victim. I could tell by his Vette that I didn't want any of that. Maybe one day but not then......

I had a lot of friends that cruised Van Nuys Blvd including myself. In fact the same day I got my drivers license I also got my first ticket on Wednesday's cruise night on VN Blvd in front of the Fox Theatre. I was set up by some cycle cops and got caught on a yellow. Oh well. My word against theirs? Paid the piper anyway! Most of my buddies were into straight line stuff and yes they did come home from Mul with damaged goods or tail up arse. I will say this -the straight lines guys that got spanked didn't go back up the hill. They knew better that their cars were not setup for curves with their skinny front tires and jacked up rear ends.

Back then life was much simpler, easy going and less complicated. Sometimes I wish I could turn the clock back.

Hey Dave,
Great advise but many are just into building our own. It's not the cost but the worth in the end product. Only car dude's understand it's a means to an end! What have you got into the Negra Cockroach'a by todays dollars? I bet a lot. Never mind because it's measured in smiles per hour not dollars! It's all about the experience and the journey and never giving up until its finished which by the way it's never actually finished! But you always have known that!

You can never have too much fun can you?

Thanks Dave,

At first blush that sounds expensive but the more I think about it that's a hell of a lot of car for about $40k. I'm about to have a a new garage built so I'll have to see how much I have left over from that.

Sometimes I wish I could have talked you out of that orange car 25 years ago but since I used that money for the down payment on my house I don't regret it too much.

Here's another pic for old times sake.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5...eracer1ov2.jpg

Kurt

A garage is an empty space or simply a parking space unless filled with something that has worth. Whether it be a project that takes year's or months a garage is for activity not for storage. A garage is a mans place for dream's to be realized. Build something and YOU will come. Build that garage and realize your dream.........that guy with the red hat standing next to the TRE tagged race car is thinking about his garage and what his dream is!

The guy in the red hat is probably trying to figure out how the hell you pronounce Dave's last name. ;-)

Kurt

Now THATS funny! :D

Good one, made me laugh. I still bumble it once in a while!

"You know Dave, Dave Whatthehecksshisname"

Re: Dave B.

The problem is that even when Dave say's his last name it doesn't quite sound right.

Thanks guys! :D

Funny

The "935" shows how far the slippery slope of getting involved in racing gets you.
The car began life as a 912, then when I got it it was a D Prod 2 liter class 911 roller.
I started with a weber carbed 3.0, then escalated from there all the way to a full on single turbo 935 motor. It provided me with lots of fond memories and an empty bank account .
It may be my ultimate "Street Racer" in that I pushed the pedal to the metal (when the 935 motor was in it) to well over 195 mph on the highways of Baja in La Carrera Classic

Now that speed gets your attention

Funny story with SCCA. I attended a race school at Riverside Raceway (most likely the pic above) . Besides a couple sports racers and other SP cars, we were amongst the fastest. My car had a K 36 turbo on it (about the size of a cement pump!) and was a slug off the turns . I still had the high speed gearing. So on the long back straight at Riverside, even the Spitfires would jump me off of Turn 8. Ok- so I blasted back by them before 7B turn off, and by the time we got to Turn 9, my hair INSIDE my balaclava clad helmeted head was whistling with all the air jamming thru the interior (We had to keep the windows open for SCCA, unlike La Carrera). Yeah- it was that kind of speed

This was the first time I actually felt the need for much larger than Turbo brakes. There was some serious braking that had to happen in a hurry.

Anyway, we were not given lap times, discouraged our crews from doing the same as it was a school. So I had no idea what was going on. This was in the days of hand held stop watches and the old fashioned not reliable electric eye- again manned by the SCCA crew.
I did not think I was doing that fantastic given the gearing, my placement in the practice races, and wanting to do a good job " dicing" in front of my instructors

So a few weeks later comes the annual SCCA tech inspection where they check out the cars for the club. I am pushing my car waiting in line and notice a "buzz" amongst the members walking around. They are looking at my car, chatting amongst themselves. I hear "That's the one !- yeah that one!" a couple of times. WTF ?!
Turns out the stellar timing system had credited me with breaking some all out track record for the course configuration !!! I just about fell down laughing at that one !

They still had it screwed up a month later when we ran a regional. The huge large bore field had a 2.5 liter 914-6 on the pole.

Message From the Underground
 

E-mailed Cory Farley and this was his reply

--------------------------------------------------

A trip down Memory Lane! Thanks....

My brother-in-law, who was born about the time that story ran, happened across a stack of Hot Rods at a garage sale a few months ago and bought a handful for a couple of bucks. One of them was the issue with that story in it, first time I'd seen it in years. Man, we don't have fun like that anymore in this business....

Best,

Cory Farley



-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Van Tress [mailto:vrvt@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:36 PM
To: Cory Farley
Subject: Underground Gran Prix



Hay there:



Since your name is being bandied about on this thread

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=323773&perpage=20&pagen umber=77

I thought you might like to jump in. You are probably the only living person to have ridden in Charlie's Vette across Mulholland (who knew?)



You really should start on page one. I wonder if there has ever been a thread of 77 pages on exactly the same subject? The Underground Gran Prix.

Oh yeah, SCCA timing and scoring was always fun.

One time I qualified the A/S Mustang on the ovarall pole that damn near equalled Parnelli Jones' pole time at the Mission Bell 250 Trans Am Race. That was obviously a mistake but it was an ego booster.

The race started and I actually held the lead for a few laps until on the back straight one of the U joints in the driveshaft decided that was enough of that. Despite driveshaft loops, the thing managed to exit my car and wreaked havoc among those in the field behind me.

After the race I went out and personally apologized to all in the field for the damage done. The driveshaft or it's parts were never located. Not that I'd ever try to use it again!

Re: Message From the Underground
 

Very cool!

I remember a couple get togethers with Farley as he was researching his article. We had a neat party at Christy's where he was just soaking in the stories and the personalities. He was definitely there as a welcome guest and friend, not just pumping out a story and moving on to the next one.

Re: Message From the Underground
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SSB
[B]E-mailed Cory Farley and this was his reply

--------------------------------------------------

A trip down Memory Lane! Thanks....

My brother-in-law, who was born about the time that story ran, happened across a stack of Hot Rods at a garage sale a few months ago and bought a handful for a couple of bucks. One of them was the issue with that story in it, first time I'd seen it in years. Man, we don't have fun like that anymore in this business....

Best,

Cory Farley



-----Original Message-----
From: Victor Van Tress [mailto:vrvt@earthlink.net]
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:36 PM
To: Cory Farley
Subject: Underground Gran Prix



Correct. No one has any fun anymore. Not even the magazine scribes it would appear.

Geez, in the overprotective society of current America, ruled by the all mighty dollar and enforcement by lawyers one cannot express individualism.

We were so blessed to live at the end of an era inwhich going fast on a mountain road in the middle of the night was not
considered a felony. Today they would lock you up for being a felon and then impound and crush your car for non-stock parts.

Re: Re: Message From the Underground
 

Sad isn't it what the world and society dictates what is acceptable and what is not? I agree we have been blessed with being in that era at the right time at the end. At least we have the privledge of saying" remember when.....we were there". I found it ironic that you said no one has any fun anymore. The fact is we made our own fun back then just like past generations had. That fun was made by freedom and creativity mixed in with a little mischief. No harm no foul. I still try to make it fun. It is not like it used to be though.

Nowadays if you water your lawn too much you get a ticket. If you don't water enough you get a ticket (did you hear about the 70 year old lady who didn't water her lawn and it turned brown- now she is in serious trouble with the law)

But there is hope. I see it just around the corner everyday. I have a bunch of older 60 - 70+ year old street rod guys that live in my neighborhood. They have some of the most impressive rides with 500 horsepoo motors and full tubbed bodies to match. The cars range from the late 40's to late 60's. They tell me stories about still getting pulled over now and they do not get tickets. Maybe the Cops and Sheriff's just do not feel right about giving these silver haired guys yellow invitations to make a donation because of the senior status. Especially when these cars are 100k classy rides. These gents do "Griffith Park Runs" and it is hysterical to listen to them tell stories.

Quotes" " we are not a car club we are trouble makers"

,.........."if it doesn't lay rubber its not worth owning",.........

............."it better go at least 50 in 1st gear", .........

.........." its not a party until the cops show up".....

......."cars are like horses they are meant to run"

.."If I want to leave rubber in front of my house I will. I don't care about property values my house is worth over a million anyhow. Ive earned it".

..."I was doing over 90 and didn't get a ticket. That young officer just told me to slow it down a bit"...

......"Officer what year were you born? You're sh tt g me!"


I envy these guys and hope I am just like them when I get to that age. They still know how to have fun and will accept no substitute. Even with the gray and silver that comes with age they demand respect even when they are breaking the law. They have mine.

Below is an article from today's LA times.

Man how things have changed. YUK!!!!

Those past few comments about how the world has changed really hits home. I have volumes to speak on this subject but it is probably better left for another kind of thread than this one.

Jeff, myself, and a host of millions feel the same way. When will the madness end?



Below is an article from today's LA times.
Stop or they'll shoot!
At five spots in the Santa Monica Mountains, new traffic-sign cameras are rolling when drivers roll through intersections.

What do you think?: Join the discussion about stop-sign cameras
By Bob Pool, Times Staff Writer
July 12, 2007


Private eye
click to enlarge
A few weeks ago, David Bennett turned off Sunset Boulevard in Pacific Palisades and pulled into a nearly vacant parking lot at Temescal Gateway Park to use his cellphone.

When he was finished, he passed a stop sign at Temescal Canyon Road and continued back to Sunset.

Then he heard from the state authority that runs the park and other open spaces along the Santa Monica Mountains.

"They sent me a letter telling me I didn't really stop," said the Malibu contractor. "They said it was a 'courtesy' letter because they weren't collecting the fine yet."

That will change next week when the Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority plans to start issuing $100 tickets to motorists who don't come to a complete stop at five stop signs equipped with cameras.
Drivers are getting used to the red-light cameras sprouting up at busy intersections around Southern California. But are they ready for what officials describe as the nation's first stop-sign cameras?

Some residents of Beverly Hills, Pacific Palisades, Topanga Canyon and other well-heeled communities near the new cameras are already battling to have them removed. They insist that the parks authority is violating state law by installing them — a charge officials deny.

Cameras have been erected at the Top of Topanga overlook, a popular ridge-top spot for gazing across the San Fernando Valley between rustic Topanga Canyon and residential Woodland Hills, and in Franklin Canyon as well as Temescal Gateway Park. Franklin Canyon is a deep ravine west of Coldwater Canyon Boulevard in the mountains between Beverly Hills and Sherman Oaks that is known for its picturesque tree-lined reservoir and nature center.

The computerized cameras are owned and operated by Redflex Traffic Systems Inc., run by an Australian-based holding group. Under its contract, the mountains authority will pay the company $20 for each image of a car running a stop sign. The fee for images from a mobile camera that can be used at other stop signs will be $40. The company's fee will be tied to the consumer price index and increase annually.

One of the mountains authority's 16 sworn park rangers will review the video and authorize the mailing of citations to the vehicles' registered owners. The ticket will not show up in the driving record of the driver or the owner.

Those receiving tickets will be able to view the video on a home computer by entering the citation number and license plate number at a website. To contest the citation, they can request an administrative hearing before an officer appointed by the authority. Failure to pay the fine will result in escalating penalties that start at $25.

"What they're doing is not legal," said Jack Allen, a retired Beverly Hills city attorney who spent 10 hours at Temescal Gateway Park counting cars exiting the parking lot and measuring speeds on the nearby street with a radar gun. "The first thing I learned as city attorney was that the state vehicle code preempts any local ordinance."

The vehicle code allows camera enforcement at rail crossings and intersections with automated traffic signals. It requires "a clear photograph of a vehicle's license plate and the driver of the vehicle."

Allen said federal guidelines authorize traffic cameras at "high crash or other high-risk locations where on-site traffic law enforcement personnel cannot be utilized" and require a traffic-engineering analysis of the site before the surveillance equipment is installed.

His radar gun showed that cars on Temescal Canyon Road outside the parking lot traveled an average of only 14 mph, Allen said. "Ironically, I observed five park ranger vehicles use the exit and none of them came to a complete stop," he said.

"Some lawyer is going to file a class action on behalf of all people cited and the [park agency] will have to refund everyone's $100," Allen predicted. "They won't have the $20 they paid Redflex, and I'm afraid they'll have to sell off some of their valuable park property to handle the judgment."

At least one outside legal expert believes the critics have a point. "They are trying to bypass the state law, the spirit of the state law," said Loyola Law School professor Laurie Levinson. Though the authority argues that it can use the cameras because its roads are private, Levinson said she doubts lawmakers intended that loophole when they passed the law.

"This is a revenue-generator issue," she said.
Private eye
click to enlarge
Mountains authority executive Joe Edmiston scoffed at that.

"I'm more worried about the lawsuit from somebody whose child is killed" by a car at one of the sites, said Edmiston, who is also executive director of the Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy, which partners with the Conejo and Rancho Simi recreation and parks districts in the Mountains Recreation and Conservation Authority. "We'd be sued for millions for not controlling the interface between visitors and cars."

Edmiston predicted the stop-sign cameras would pass any legal challenge. Mountains authority officials view their roads as private property, not public roadways, and believe they have the legal authority to enforce traffic laws there.

The mountains authority was established in 1985 as a state-sanctioned joint powers authority. According to the agency's operating ordinance, its officials have the power to "to enforce any law, ordinance, rule, regulation or resolution duly adopted and noticed by any jurisdiction where the authority has management authority or where otherwise authorized by law or by agreement."

Said Edmiston: "Our lawyers have said there's no conflict. Our lawyers have said it's legal. This is not about revenue. It's 100% about safety."

Mountains authority spokeswoman Dash Stolarz said Franklin Canyon is heavily used by motorists who "bail through during the rush hour" when they use it as a Coldwater Canyon bypass. "It's a terrible problem," she said.

Sherman Oaks residents Alison and Craig Eastman agree. They regularly hike in Franklin Canyon.

"People zip through here all the time. I don't think these cameras are motivated by avarice," Alison Eastman said.

"You come here at 4:30 or 5 in the afternoon and it's a steady line of cars avoiding Coldwater Canyon," added her husband, a film composer.

Other hikers weren't so sure, however.

"It's kind of got that Big Brother feel," said Ishiah Benben, an actress from San Anselmo, Calif., who recently moved to Hollywood. "I'm not from L.A., so I'm not used to these. My friends and I laugh about the eye in the sky in Los Angeles."

At Temescal Park, visitor Erin Kapczynski, a Santa Monica marketing consultant, gazed at the stop-sign camera and then at empty Temescal Canyon Road on the other side of the sign.

"I don't see it as a safety issue," Kapczynski said. "It's a revenue-maker."

In addition to the five existing cameras, others are planned — including a mobile camera that can be moved from place to place and permanent cameras at the Hollywood Bowl overlook and the Marvin Braude Mulholland Gateway Park in Tarzana.

So armed with their new cameras, park rangers are ready to shoot first and ask questions later.




Only one comment is necessary for this big brother camera crapp, F. U.

Speed and traffic cameras in the UK are called Gatsos after the inventor, a Dutchman named Gatsonides who, ironically enough, was an accomplished race driver. Some blokes in the UK have an interesting way of dealing with Gatsos;

http://www.speedcam.co.uk/gatso2.htm

....not that I'm suggesting anything. Perish the thought.

Ciao babies,
Kurt O.

Thanks for that link Kurt, it was very enjoyable to see how this is dealt with in England. You gotta hand it to the Brits, they know how to get things done in a proper fashion. I love England. Long live the Queen!

OK so all that means is that there will be hidden cameras installed to monitor the revenue generating cameras. I liked that thread posted by Too Tall. I have a really big stack of old tires. Now I know how to use them in the most effective manner.